I got this in the mail today and rather than post it here ( it is a little long)I put it on a web page. the URL is: http://donald_6.tripod.com/gbamerica.htm check it out if you want. or click on my name below and it will take you there. Later, Don
Don Miller
USA - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 21:43:51 (MST)

Fred S. My condolences Brother.
Bruno E Sanchez <Bsanchez1@rr.stx.com>
Laredo, Tx USA - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 10:37:22 (MST)

Good Morning Cobras & Bulldogs. Just checking in. Judith sorry to hear that your dad is ill. I'm familiar with the stress. Just keep the faith. Diane where are you ? Just check in once in a while. Curt Classon where are you ? Say who is the guy with all the demographics. He's a regular Dick Tracy-He knows it all, very informed person. But why don't he sign his name. I wonder. Anyway, flight take care.
Bruno E Sanchez <bsanchez1@stxrr.com>
Laredo, Tx USA - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 10:33:28 (MST)

Thank you everyone. My dad will be fine, I am fine. Please put your thoughts and prayers to work on this war thing. Thank you, always there-Gently
Gently
USA - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 08:48:30 (MST)

jently, hopes ur dad gets better soon. prayers are sent.Same for u mom fred scaggs, prayer is sent. My son, Alan, isnt a pilot. He is into the electronics enf of it , i believe.I want to thanlk each and everyone of u for ur support, I know it means alot to him, as it did us.He has to be surprised at the out pouring of support from here. chuckle. Gale , ur vacation sounds great, u taking the rag top? yep, just a few more days and i will be captured again. Be nice to hear someone elses voice around here.She is getting here just in times to mow the lawn...chuckle. ya ,right.Got to go, this place still looks like a hot LZ. in case anyone wants to send a card, his addy is...AT2 Alan Alvis AIMD/IM3 USS Nimitz cvn68 fpo ap 96620-2820
alvis
USA - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 08:42:15 (MST)

Judith hope your father is feeling better positive thoughts always. Srry Fred about your step father be careful out there.******* Fred about your son's e-mail I sent a pic maybe that did I will try again. Yea, Fred S.and I are on allot of lists I am sure. HEHEHEHE
Rick England
USA - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 08:36:16 (MST)

Judith, so sorry to here that your Dad is not well. Debbie & I send our prayers for you and your family during this critical time. Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 08:20:48 (MST)

Brother & Sisters of the 129th Family. Please keep Gerry Eisch ( Judith "Gently" Singer's) father in your prayers.He has be very ill for over a month and is back in the Hospital. I know that Judith "Gently" and her family would appreciate your support & prayers. God Bless you All, Bro Joe
Joe Campbell <vva324jfc@aol.com>
Milwaukee, Wi USA - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 08:07:51 (MST)

Fred S., your family is in my prayers. There are no words to truly comfort you, but know that your 129 family is here for you. Fred A., I'm off to write your son right now. Always there for each and everyone of you....and where are you Marky, Mark.. Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 07:29:34 (MST)

Wow!! 3 years ago today I retired from the US Postal Service......and have enjoyed every day since. I highly recommend it. A little advice....if any of you are waitng for the finances to be there, well, just don't wait too long. Mark, you out there brother? We haven't heard from you in a while. Hope you and Dee are back to good health. Alvis, you got that house cleaned up yet? You have about 3 and a wake up don't you? Hope you have everything in ship- shape. Good luck buddy! I hope you all are getting your reservations & registrations made for LZ Atlanta....can't wait. We will pull in there Thursday afternoon and leave Sunday for a week of S.S.S.("Sun, Suds & Sex")at Siesta Key Beach. Oh yeah, the S.S.S. is not in any particular order. ;o]]]] I'm clear, Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Monday, March 31, 2003 at 07:10:50 (MST)

Fred, Sorry to hear about your Step Dad, I hope your Mother is doing better. have a safe trip.
J.W.
USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 20:11:43 (MST)

Fred S. Sorry to hear about your step-dad...our thoughts and prayers (you know) are with you, Kim, and your mom! Fred A. I sent Alan a .jpg of our patch, and told him I hoped he could include it in his picture... he said he'd shoot me a copy when he takes it! We'll have to get it up on the Gallery page. Goin' camping... see you in a week!
Dave Powers
USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 18:36:22 (MST)

Freddie, sorry about your stepfather and wish the best for your Mom. Alvis, what's your sons fisrt name? I sent him an e-mail and support. Ray, that's good news buddy. Keep on hangin' on !! Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 18:01:56 (MST)

SORRY I DONT KNOW HOW IT ALL WENTON TWICE PERHAPS NOT DOING AS WELL AS I THOUGHT ..JUST KIDDING BUT SORRY THANKS A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER
USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 17:57:19 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT.... AND ALL MY BROTHRES AND SISTERS. FRED ALVIS IF YOU DO GET 129YH ON BOMB IAM SURE YOU EILL SEND TO ALL THAT WOULD BE GRATE. FRED WOULD YOU PLEASE E MAIL ME,, I NEED TO ASK YOUR HOME ADRESS.GETTING SOMETHING TO SEND YOU OK,TELL ME IS YOUR SON A PIOLET. THEY ALL ALL DOING A GRATE JOB THERE ,,AND PRAYES GO OUT EVERDAY..OH I YOUW WRITE ME PLEASE IN SUM PUT FROM YHE I29 TH.TAKE CARE ALL. A BRITHER ALWAYS RAY BE SAFE. OH PS I FEEL OK SHRINK HELPER SAYS HE SEED A DIFFRENCE IN ME SO MED WORKING AND LOSING STRESS I HOPE LORD PLEASE WATCH OVER OUT TROOPS
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET , MD USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 17:54:21 (MST)

wow, thanks guys for ur support of my son and the troops. fred Scaggs, sorry for your loss, said a prayer. I havent gotten any e mails back. be sure u put all the dots and stuff in. Wonder if his system can take only so many e mails?. Alan said that he cant tell me when that will happen, but start looking in about a week. you guys noticed that our guys over there are starting to look like warriors now, instead of kids? We have just seen many a lad come to manhood, and not to forget, a few ladies are now warriors also. Fingers crossed for the recepatent of the rpg attack. Sure hope Alan can write 129th on that bomb, kinda like the thought of that, one more punch from us. take care all. clear.
alvis
USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 15:37:28 (MST)

Fred A. My e-mail came back also, is there some type of code or something I forgot or certain "time window" in which I need to send it. I`ll try again!!!!
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 13:46:33 (MST)

Fred A. My e-mail came back also, is there some of code or something I forgot or certain "time window" in which I need to send it. I`ll try again!!!!
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 13:45:14 (MST)

Fred Alvis, I sent your son a e-mail, and gave him plenty of " positive re-enforcement' and thanked him for "being there" for us. Also told him if he needs anything "care package" or anything I can mail to him, my wife and I will take care of it. Going home to Ohio Monday, my step-father died Saturday evening, I had been home couple weeks ago to help put him in a Hospice Care Center. It wasn`t unexpected, but the stress got to mom and she`s in Riverside Hospital in Columbus. There will been no funeral, he made the strange request of spreading his ashes on the local "horse racing track". Never ever seen a time in my life, that he didn`t have a "racing form" in his back pocket or was reading one. But he took good care of my mother for 35 years and she`s set up for life.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 13:34:59 (MST)

Fred A., I heard back from your son... he said he'd do what he could about representing the 129th AHC on a weapon! Rick England... I wonder if the military may be censoring some e-mail???
Dave Powers
USA - Sunday, March 30, 2003 at 07:44:54 (MST)

Fred, the commo came back. Is their something I need to do special?
Rick England
USA - Saturday, March 29, 2003 at 21:17:32 (MST)

Rick, I have been out of the comm. loop since I retired but I have noticed a lot of extra helicopter traffic around here. I only live 8 miles from the training area so we hear alot of what goes on there. good luck and God speed to all of our troops over there. the son of one of the guys I work with is in the hospital in Germany I guess he will be coming home soon, his Hummer took an RPG and ruptured his eardrum and kinda cut and poked some holes in him but other than that he is ok. don't know about the others in the hummer with him. so this thing hits close to home. and I'm afraid it will touch all of us in one way or another. later, Don
Don Miller
AZ USA - Saturday, March 29, 2003 at 18:05:40 (MST)

I will do that Fred. Outstanding.
Rick England
USA - Saturday, March 29, 2003 at 09:55:40 (MST)

hey folks. I just recieved an E mail from my son aboard the uss nimitz. He ask if i wanted my name put on a bomb. smile, said hell yes. thought for a second, then added, can u put 129th ahc on one and take a pic?.If anyone wants to say hello to him, his addy is alvisa@nimitz.navy.mil take care all
alvis
USA - Saturday, March 29, 2003 at 09:13:46 (MST)

Don Miller I see were a NG Medical Detachment is training on Black Hawks in Florenece Az. you probably have heard them. They are moving out on Monday.***** I got three boxes to send to the troops. A very good buddy of my son's is a Navy Corpsman with the Marines. David told me we can send to his APO an just leave the name off and put any Marine. If anybody is interested BC me and I 'll send the APO. Support the troops and flight be careful out there.
Rick England
USA - Saturday, March 29, 2003 at 08:36:01 (MST)

Demographics You Live in California when... 1. You make over $250,000 and you still can't afford to buy a house. 2. The high school quarterback calls a time-out to answer his cell phone. 3. The fastest part of your commute is going down your driveway. 4. You know how to eat an artichoke. 5. You drive your rented Mercedes to your neighborhood block party. 6. When someone asks you how far something is, you tell them how long it will take to get there rather than how many miles away it is. You Live in New York City when... 1. You say "the city" and expect everyone to know you mean Manhattan. 2. You have never been to the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building. 3. You can get into a four-hour argument about how to get from Columbus Circle to Battery Park, but can't find Wisconsin on a map. 4. You think Central Park is "nature," 5. You believe that being able to swear at people in their own language makes you multi-lingual. 6. You've worn out a car horn. 7. You think eye contact is an act of aggression. You Live in Maine when... 1. You only have four spices: salt, pepper, ketchup, and Tabasco. 2. Halloween costumes fit over parkas. 3. You have more than one recipe for moose. 4. Sexy lingerie is a nything flannel with less than eight buttons. 5. The four seasons are: winter, still winter, almost winter, and construction. You Live in the Deep South when... 1. You can rent a movie and buy bait in the same store. 2. "ya'll" is singular and "all ya'll" is plural. 3. After five years you still hear, "You ain't from 'round here, are Ya?" 4. "He needed killin' " is a valid defense. 5. Everyone has 2 first names: Billy Bob, Jimmy Bob, Mary Sue, Betty Jean, etc. You live in Colorado when... 1. You carry your $3,000 mountain bike atop your $500 car. 2. You tell your husband to pick up Granola on his way home and he stops at the day care center. 3. A pass does not involve a football or dating. 4. The top of your head is bald, but you still have a pony tail. You live in the Midwest when... 1. You've never met any celebrities, but the mayor knows your name. 2. Your idea of a traffic jam is ten cars waiting to pass a tractor. 3. You have had to switch from "heat" to "A/C" on the same day. 4. You end sentences with a preposition: "Where's my coat at?" 5. When asked how your trip was to any exotic place, you say, "It was different!" You live in Florida when... 1. You eat dinner at 3:15 in the afternoon. 2. All purchases include a coupon of some kind -- even houses and cars. 3. Everyone can recommend an excellent dermatologist. 4. Road construction never ends anywhere in the state. 5. Cars in front of you are often driven by headless people.
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX - Friday, March 28, 2003 at 13:27:31 (MST)

Gently, I did not mean that to offend you I thought I explain that Bobby Knight said that. And it wasn`t directed at you. I even made the comment that it inflamed the entire female population of the United States. At this point I`m probably swinging to the right wing in the sense that I don`t want our troops restricted on what they have to do. There`s nothing that I can do other than support the troops and hope they end this war asap. I know you are still furious at me. But when this started I wasn`t playing " both sides of the fence" with you and Fred Brown. Like I said I aplogize and feel terrible if it offended you. At one time we had good conversation and I supported you on 90% of what you had to say. Hell....I even tried to call you one time, when I found a article that supported what you were saying about a issue. Granted Gently, I got very emotional and passionate about the issue of war and it cost me some respect. But I`m not a pig or a idiot, I`m secure that I have a few people in my corner. Honestly it goes all the way back to my raising hell about the " colored guy ' comment, I never recovered from that episode. But I DON`T endorse rape, I wanted to make the point of "the helpless feeling" of mine about the war, that`s all.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, March 28, 2003 at 11:20:12 (MST)

Happy Birthday Tom Shaw. We remember. Gently
Judith <jsinger@uwm.wedu>
USA - Friday, March 28, 2003 at 11:03:37 (MST)

Fred Skaggs, if the "rape" example is the best you can come up with, well, you are an idiot and a pig! Yes, I'm offended. Judith
Judith <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Hell, USA - Friday, March 28, 2003 at 08:09:38 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT.. JUST WANT TO SAY HELLO TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS.AND SHOW SUPORT FOR OUT BROTHERS AND SISTERS. I CAN ONLY HOPETHE VA WILL BE THERE WHEN THEY RETURN.IAM NOT SURE BUT I THOUGHT THEY SAID IRAQ WAS NOT PLAYING BY RULES. WELL WE NEED TO GET RID OF RULE BOOK AND GET GET HIM. JUST MY THOUGHT A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Friday, March 28, 2003 at 07:42:17 (MST)

well said Joe. I see no paralles at all to vietnam. none . the troops are supported,it isnt a civil war,all iraqis hate us,they are trying to hit back here in this country,we have a very clear target and forum. theyare not supported by china ,nor Russia.There is no line in the sand that we cant cross or bomb, no safe places for them to run to.There arent enough troops to do the job yet.They hate the goverenment there,perhaps more than they hate us.We are invaders there, who wouldnt fight when there country is invaded? do not forget that.yes, the world thinks we are wrong, but they didnt have the twin towers, nor have they benn having there civilan planes blown out of the air, nor have there embassys bombed,nor had there citizens captured and executed for no other reason than being americans.They havent been slapped for the last 20 years.North vietnam acutally ask us for help,which we declined to do as we backed the french , again.The only paralles i see are that our young men are again dying in a far off country.Kill sadam and his hench men, give iraqi back to iraqi's people, then get out.
alvis
USA - Friday, March 28, 2003 at 07:25:16 (MST)

The Purpose of this Very Special Web Site: THIS IS A PLACE OF FRIENDSHIP, FOR THOSE THAT FIND COMRADES FROM LONG AGO. THIS IS A PLACE TO HEAL, FOR MANY STILL HAVE WOUNDS. THIS IS A PLACE THAT IS SACRED, FOR THE "FALLING HERO'S" ARE AMONG US. THIS IS A PLACE CALLED HOME, "WELCOME HOME". THIS PLACE IS YOURS, MEN OF THE 129TH TILL MY LAST BREATH. THIS PLACE BELONGS TO THE KIA OF THE 129TH. THIS IS A PLACE OF FREEDOM, FOR SOME GAVE ALL TO MAKE IT THAT WAY. A BROTHER OF A BROTHER, RELATED TO THE COST OF FREEDOM, "We Thank You" Brother MARK
Joe Campbell <vva324jfc@aol.com>
Milwaukee, WI USA - Friday, March 28, 2003 at 06:39:43 (MST)

Animal(Greg) and Kim, I agree with both of you, but I`m starting to see some parallel`s that are like Viet-Nam, but war is hell and it`s not glorious. It`s a runaway train that can`t be stopped....because it WILL run over me. Just support our men and women. I don`t mean to inflame our female counterparts, but Bob Knight(basketball coach of West Point and some other midwest state) once made a statement that inflamed the entire female population of the United States, but if you can really give it some thought it makes sense. Bob Knight said," If rape is inevitable.....don`t fight it....sit back and enjoy the moment". If something is gonna happen, that you can`t do something about it.....make the best of it. Support our troops !!!!!!!!
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 17:06:05 (MST)

thinks the goverment should let the armed forces take their gloves off. this is going to be a bloodletting and its only going to get worse if we are handicapped wearing gloves,,,,,again. permission to go hot my azz, get some, brothers
alvis
USA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 15:52:55 (MST)

Well said Kim, It's too late to stop now, that would be worse than "coitus interuptus". I was totally against this war, but that was then and this is now. Before the war we had choices, now we have no choice but to end it with a swift and decisive victory. May Buddah watch over our brave men and women. And may the people responsible be held accountable after. Aloha, Greg
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 14:23:05 (MST)

HHmmmm...there are a few BILLION Bhuddists, and Hindu's who would disagree with that sentiment! Both Islam and Christianity are religeons of peace, which is not practiced by their proponents! Wars happen because we think they can happen, they've been around long before this, and they'll be around long after this one. To my way of thinking, it's past the point of wondering whether or not we should be there...It's time to let the military have their own lead, and let them prosecute it the best they can! Patton had it right, in my opinion, when he said the most effective way to wage war is to be fast and brutal. He captured more ground, took more prisioners, killed more enemy troops, with fewer casualties than any other British or American General! I don't like the similarities between this and Vietnam, all the hand wringing about civilain casualties, and damage to non military facilities! Bullets and bombs tend to hurt people who get in the way, and the only way to kill the enemy is to throw bombs and bullets at them. If they hide in with the civilians, then, civilians are going to get hurt.
Kim
USA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 14:09:49 (MST)

Mr. Observer I don`t have a great education never graduated from high school I do not have a ged. I did not read much history I am just a normal man a middle class working man. But i can read my bible and understand it. my bible speaks of the times we are living in and the LORD will be on the side of who is right in this war. I just work everyday and try to be the best christain i can be. Brothers and Sisters it is getting close to the end of time. Jesus is coming for us soon and you must be saved by the Lord to go home to heaven. Mr. observer i do not know much about the history you speak of. I do know about the Roman Empire and the England empire and they are gone because the Lord was not on ther side. Brothers and Sisters read your bible it is the best history leson there is.
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXX, XXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUSA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 09:53:47 (MST)

This message was recently passed to me and I think you might appreciate it. This gentleman makes a heck of an argument for justification of a war with Iraq. Bernie I asked a friend of mine who is in his 80's who was in the Korean War and World War II to give me a little history lesson and his thoughts today on War. I am sharing this because it is a different look at the War. It is not my opinion just thoughts from an honorable man that lived through two Wars and that I have a great respect for. Thoughts to think about: ........................ I'm not going to get into a history lesson. The short, short version is that the League of Nations (established after WW I to prevent wars) failed to stop Mussolini's Italy from invading and conquering Ethiopia. It failed to stop Japan from invading and conquering Manchuria and much of China. Their committees wrung their hands spoke in platitudes but did absolutely nothing to stop war. At France's coaxing Britain's prime minister Nevil Chamberlain met with Adolph Hitler in Munich and surrendered the Sudetenland to Nazi Germany in the interest of "peace in our time." The French and British watched as Germany took Austria, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia. They all had committee meetings and wrung their hands and talked of peace. World War II erupted when Nazi Germany invaded Poland. Britain had a mutual defense treaty with Poland so they couldn't escape. They declared war on Germany. Germany had a mutual defense treaty with Japan so Japan declared war on Britain. France wet their pants and surrendered to Germany as fast as they could and gleefully shipped all the Jews they could find to death camps in Germany to prove to Adolph that they really were on the side of Germany. Japan attacked the United States and, because of Japan's mutual defense treaty with Germany, Germany declared war on the United States. Up until December 7th and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, a large number of our people were wringing their hands and saying, "Appease Hitler. He is really a good guy who just needed a little more land for his expanding population. The dear man just wants peace. And World War II was in full swing leaving better than 50,000,000 people dead including about 450,000 American soldiers and sailors. Three cheers for the League of Nations! After World War II it was decided to do the whole thing all over again. This time we would call it the United Nations and we will have committee meetings and hand wringing parties and make sure peace prevails throughout the land. While that august body wrung hands the Soviet Union split Germany, invaded Poland and Yugoslavia, Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria along with Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. The peaceful world saw Korea with 37,000 American soldiers killed, over 1,000,000 South Korean soldiers and civilians killed and the country nearly destroyed. Since then we have had over 50,000 American soldiers killed in Vietnam and have fought wars in Somalia, Herzegovenia, Panama, Granada, plus the Gulf War when Iraq invaded Kuwait. We should have gone into Baghdad and taken out that evil regime then but the United Nations would have no part of that. All they would allow was for us to chase the Iraqis out of Kuwait, then peace would prevail. Now, here we are with Saddam violating all 17 United Nations resolutions while he has massed poison gas and bio weapons. He is frantically trying to develop a nuke and his buddy, Kim Jong-Il of North Korea may give him a few. (It was the United Nations who prevented us from taking North Korea when the war was hot and we had the means to do it.) Peace!!!!!!!! Sure. France is wetting their collective pants in fear that the United States will take Saddam out and along with him, France's 60 billion dollar contracts with Iraq. Russia hedges because Iraq owes them 6 billion dollars that they sorely need. In answer to your question....... hell yes we should go to war with Iraq. We should have done it six months ago. We should also get out of the United Nations. Can you believe that the United Nations has appointed Iraq and Syria to head up the United Nations Disarmament Committee? Can you believe they have appointed Libya to head up the Human Rights Committee? All three of these countries are on the UN List of Terrorist States.............Absolutely unbelievable. Just don't get me going. Throughout recorded history the only time peace has prevailed is when the good guys have militarily whipped the bad guys. Who are our best friends in the world? Japan because we whipped them in WWII. Germany because we whipped them in WWII. Italy because we whipped them in WWII. Britain because we whipped them in the 1700's. This is one opinion on the War, but this is the eyes, ears and heart of an American Veteran...
Another Observer
USA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 08:34:16 (MST)

A flat-chested young lady goes to Dr. Smith for advice about breast enlargements. He tells her, "Every day when you get out of the shower, rub your nipples and say, 'Scooby dooby doobies, I want bigger boobies.' She did this every day faithfully, and after several months, it worked. She grew great boobies! One morning, she was running late. She was on the bus, when she realized she had forgotten her morning ritual. At this point, she loved her new boobies and didn't want to lose them, she got up right in the middle of the bus and said "Scooby dooby doobies, I want bigger boobies." A guy sitting nearby asked her, "Do you go to Dr. Smith, by any chance?" "Why, yes, I do! How did you know?" "Hickory dickory dock...."
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 08:02:48 (MST)

Kim LaVoie.....Damn Kim....you always have a great "home spun" way with words.......LOL... I got a e-mail this morning from a fellow named Ric, he was with the 173rd in 68/69 at Uplift. Who is this guy?........He sent some pictures of "The Herd" new adventure.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 07:53:35 (MST)

Iron butterfly is still waiting to get shipped. Hopping to get her ready for the first air show in oct.***** GO SKY SOLDIERS Flight be careful out there.
Rick England
USA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 05:32:43 (MST)

HHMMMMMMM...and the point is?????? Hell, I've got a dog with a long pedigree, guess what? he still barks and wags his tail.....War planning and execution belongs to the military!!!
Kim
USA - Thursday, March 27, 2003 at 04:23:27 (MST)

THE HONORABLE DONALD RUMSFELD Secretary of Defense -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Donald H. Rumsfeld was sworn in as the 21st Secretary of Defense on January 20, 2001. Before assuming his present post, the former Navy pilot had also served as the 13th Secretary of Defense, White House Chief of Staff, U.S. Ambassador to NATO, U.S. Congressman and chief executive officer of two Fortune 500 companies. Secretary Rumsfeld is responsible for directing the actions of the Defense Department in response to the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. The war is being waged against a backdrop of major change within the Department of Defense. The department has developed a new defense strategy and replaced the old model for sizing forces with a newer approach more relevant to the 21st century. Secretary Rumsfeld proposed and the President approved a significant reorganization of the worldwide command structure, known as the Unified Command Plan, that resulted in the establishment of the U.S. Northern Command and the U.S. Strategic Command, the latter charged with the responsibilities formerly held by the Strategic and Space Commands which were disestablished. The Department also has refocused its space capabilities and fashioned a new concept of strategic deterrence that increases security while reducing strategic nuclear weapons. To help strengthen the deterrent, the missile defense research and testing program has been reorganized and revitalized, free of the restraints of the ABM treaty. Mr. Rumsfeld attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC scholarships (A.B., 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. In 1957, he transferred to the Ready Reserve and continued his Naval service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until 1975. He transferred to the Standby Reserve when he became Secretary of Defense in 1975 and to the Retired Reserve with the rank of Captain in 1989. In 1957, he came to Washington, DC to serve as Administrative Assistant to a Congressman. After a stint with an investment banking firm, he was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives from Illinois in 1962, at the age of 30, and was re-elected in 1964, 1966, and 1968. Mr. Rumsfeld resigned from Congress in 1969 during his fourth term to join the President's Cabinet. From 1969 to 1970, he served as Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity and Assistant to the President. From 1971 to 1972, he was Counsellor to the President and Director of the Economic Stabilization Program. In 1973, he left Washington, DC, to serve as U.S. Ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Brussels, Belgium (1973-1974). In August 1974, he was called back to Washington, DC, to serve as Chairman of the transition to the Presidency of Gerald R. Ford. He then became Chief of Staff of the White House and a member of the President's Cabinet (1974-1975). He served as the 13th U.S. Secretary of Defense, the youngest in the country's history (1975-1977). From 1977 to 1985 he served as Chief Executive Officer, President, and then Chairman of G.D. Searle & Co., a worldwide pharmaceutical company. The successful turnaround there earned him awards as the Outstanding Chief Executive Officer in the Pharmaceutical Industry from the Wall Street Transcript (1980) and Financial World (1981). From 1985 to 1990 he was in private business. Mr. Rumsfeld served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Instrument Corporation from 1990 to 1993. General Instrument Corporation was a leader in broadband transmission, distribution, and access control technologies. Until being sworn in as the 21st Secretary of Defense, Mr. Rumsfeld served as Chairman of the Board of Gilead Sciences, Inc., a pharmaceutical company. Before returning for his second tour as Secretary of Defense, Mr. Rumsfeld chaired the bipartisan U.S. Ballistic Missile Threat Commission, in 1998, and the U.S. Commission to Assess National Security Space Management and Organization, in 2000. During his business career, Mr. Rumsfeld continued his public service in a variety of Federal posts, including: Member of the President's General Advisory Committee on Arms Control (1982 - 1986); Special Presidential Envoy on the Law of the Sea Treaty (1982 - 1983); Senior Advisor to the President's Panel on Strategic Systems (1983 - 1984); Member of the U.S. Joint Advisory Commission on U.S./Japan Relations (1983 - 1984); Special Presidential Envoy to the Middle East (1983 - 1984); Member of the National Commission on Public Service (1987 - 1990); Member of the National Economic Commission (1988 - 1989); Member of the Board of Visitors of the National Defense University (1988 - 1992); Member of the Commission on U.S./Japan Relations (1989 - 1991); and Member of the U.S. Trade Deficit Review Commission (1999 - 2000). While in the private sector, Mr. Rumsfeld's civic activities included service as a member of the National Academy of Public Administration and a member of the boards of trustees of the Gerald R. Ford Foundation, the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, and the National Park Foundation, and as Chairman of the Eisenhower Exchange Fellowships, Inc. In 1977, Mr. Rumsfeld was awarded the nation's highest civilian award, the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, XXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXX - Wednesday, March 26, 2003 at 23:22:22 (MST)

KIM & FRED S You are correct. Rumsfeld served as a fighter pilot. AF/Navy ? He also holds the distinction of being the youngest and oldest person to be Sec.of Defense. At 43 with President Ford and at 70 with Dubya.
Fred Brown
USA - Wednesday, March 26, 2003 at 22:01:23 (MST)

Kim LaVoie.....I may be wrong....but I think Rumsfeld served in the Air Force...maybe as a pilot....but he was a a "tweener".....he served between Nam and Korea. I`m not really sure...I don`t pay much attention to them. But I knew a kid growing up that his name was Ken Rumsfeld.....he was Hebrew. God it`s a sad time in N.C. with Camp Lejune and Ft. Bragg being here.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Wednesday, March 26, 2003 at 21:08:24 (MST)

Kim LaVoie, Yea that`s all good about the 173rd....didn`t realize they were still active and based in Italy. GO HERD!!!!!!! Interesting observation of your take on the "cause and effect" of the "shock and awe" planning.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Wednesday, March 26, 2003 at 20:50:06 (MST)

Rule number 1 in U.S. military campaigns....get the EFFing civilians out of the ops center!!!!!!!! Who in hell came up with "SHOCK AND AWE?" Maybe if that shithead Rumsfeld had served, he would be a little more aware of one of the facts of warfare..namely, bombing population centers rarely causes an enemy to cave in. Think England, Germany, ww2... 173rd Herd on a para drop!!!!!!! Not too long ago, the news was that airborne was a thing of the past...GGGOOOOOO HHHHEEEERRRRRDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!
kim
USA - Wednesday, March 26, 2003 at 20:17:05 (MST)

You gotta see this! Awesome paint job on MI-24 chopper in Afganistan. Pics at: www.oregonpi.com/awesome_paint_job.html
Max Whittington
USA - Wednesday, March 26, 2003 at 18:12:48 (MST)

any new updates on the iron buterfly?
alvis
USA - Wednesday, March 26, 2003 at 07:05:46 (MST)

Fred A. it's worse than that...my second trip into sammies army was as a grunt. 197th light infantry, then 4/64th armor, 3rd Infantry division. Somewhere along the way, I recall being told that an attacking force needed to have a 5-1 advantage to ensure success. It's a little troubling to know that we are outmanned over there. I guess the high tech stuff is enough to equalize things...Still, it comes down to the m-1 grunt taking the ground that the enemy holds...one good thing about sand storms, it takes away the threat of chemical weapons....my opinion, one chemical weapon= one nuke, good bye bagdad!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kim La Voie
USA - Tuesday, March 25, 2003 at 20:35:43 (MST)

With all of this talk of impending war, many of us will encounter "Peace Activists" who will try and convince us that we must refrain from retaliating against the ones who terrorized us all on September 11, 2001, and those who support terror. These activists may be alone or in a gathering.....most of us don't know how to react to them. When you come upon one of these people, or one of their rallies, here are the proper rules of etiquette 1. Listen politely while this person explains their views. Strike up a conversation if necessary and look very interested in their ideas. They will tell you how revenge is immoral, and that by attacking the people who did this to us, we will only bring on more violence. They will probably use many arguments, ranging from political to religious to humanitarian. 2. In the middle of their remarks, without any warning, punch them in the nose. 3. When the person gets up off of the ground, they will be very angry and they may try to hit you, so be careful. 4. Very quickly and calmly remind the person that violence only brings about more violence and remind them of their stand on this matter. Tell them if they are really committed to a nonviolent approach to undeserved attacks, they will turn the other cheek and negotiate a solution. Tell them they must lead by example if they really believe what they are saying. 5. Most of them will think for a moment and then agree that you are correct. 6. As soon as they do that, hit them again. Only this time hit them much harder. Square in the nose. 7. Repeat steps 2-5 until the desired results are obtained and the idiot realizes how stupid of an argument he/she is making. 8. There is no difference in an individual attacking an unsuspecting victim or a group of terrorists attacking a nation of people. It is unacceptable and must be dealt with. Perhaps at a high cost. We owe our military a huge debt for what they are about to do for us and our children. We must support them and our leaders at times like these. We have no choice. We either strike back, VERY HARD, or we will keep getting hit in the nose. Lesson over, class dismissed Notice: The information contained in this message may be privileged, confidential
alvis
USA - Tuesday, March 25, 2003 at 16:16:02 (MST)

seeing those 2 empty chopper pilot helmets made my stomach knot up.Pissed me off too. I think lots of Americans thought this was going to be a cakewalk.I hope they have the stomach for whats to come.I just cant believe some of the comments i have heard.Perhaps its my fault for not expecting the innonce of the american peoples.god bless our troops and espically the pows.I wish they would let me strap in again and go flying behind my 60.
alvis
USA - Tuesday, March 25, 2003 at 16:10:06 (MST)

Hi Gale, I don't remember him but i will check with Ricky Koeble and Tom Hammonds to see if they remember him.
J. W. Wilson <kas3@ncfreedom.net>
kinston, nc USA - Monday, March 24, 2003 at 16:31:05 (MST)

J.W., Would you happen to remember a medic by the last name of "Torres" ? He's a vital link to my VA claim or was anyone out there at Dong Ba Thin in 67 that recalls me injuring my back while building PSP revetments on the flight line? Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Monday, March 24, 2003 at 06:48:53 (MST)

very good keep off,it is for me
mugu togo <mugutogo@mail.com>
lome, lome - Monday, March 24, 2003 at 01:29:24 (MST)

god grant me patience and grant it to me NOW
alvis
USA - Saturday, March 22, 2003 at 20:38:15 (MST)

Hi Larry, speaking of Garrison and he being a little wild reminded me of time when he gave the old popasong who worked at 10th bn dispensery cleaning up some coca-cola. The old man being catholic would not drink any thing with alcohol but smoked his water pipe with the good stuff in it. The more coca-cola he drank,the more Jim Beam leslie put in it. Finally the old man heart stopped and we had to give him CPR. He became allright in a couple hours but later he stayed clear of Garrison.
J.W. Wilson <kas3@ncfreedom.net>
USA - Friday, March 21, 2003 at 17:56:45 (MST)

Grant us all the serenity...
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Friday, March 21, 2003 at 12:58:51 (MST)

RE Iron Butterfly: Doesn't MailBoxes, Etc. claim they can ship anything? Maybe in return for some good publicity they'll make an offer.... RE The Patriot, The Joker (obviously the same person: MARK, see if you can't get an ISP address from the webmaster, and send it to me along with marked posting times. Internet investigations are part of what I do for a living, so maybe we can do something about it. Re War: "God, please grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change ... " etc....
Max Whittington
USA - Friday, March 21, 2003 at 08:05:09 (MST)

dang, Don, that sounds like some mean stuff.Hope i never find out just how mean, nor those in the gulf. how bout it guys....anyone know how to help iron butterfly?
alvis
USA - Friday, March 21, 2003 at 07:18:34 (MST)

one thing I forgot in my last post. the blisters are NOT painful at all. there was no pain with the mustard agent or the blister. only after it broke was there any pain and that was because the skin underneath was so sensitive, like a normal blister. the only thing I cas say is they leave a pretty nasty scar. after 35 years I can still see the site. the agent was applied to my arm with the tip of a straightened out paperclip. (what 1/64 inch in dia. ?) the scar is just under 3/4 inch in dia. so it is nasty stuff. Later, Don
Don Miller
AZ USA - Thursday, March 20, 2003 at 23:22:23 (MST)

Sending out an S.O.S. We are in need of transport for 431 the Iron Butterfly. Transport company's are way out of our price range. Would need to get her from Bangor Maine to Umatilla Fl in the next 3 to 4 weeks. If any of you guys can find or have the equipment to help us out it would be most helpful. Please call 352-326-9900 or the Cell phone at 352-258-6452. Any suggestion would also be helpful. We have had qoutes from 2500 to 4000. Thanks again for any help. Kristen Cooper
Kristen Cooper <Kristen@tropicalhelicopter.com>
Leesburg, FL USA - Thursday, March 20, 2003 at 15:13:27 (MST)

Gale, Fred, the Pop-a Top May 3rd sounds good. Should we let Mark know or surprise him? :>)))) Always there for our Veterans and our troops-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Thursday, March 20, 2003 at 12:50:43 (MST)

thanks for the heads up don miller.
alvis
USA - Thursday, March 20, 2003 at 08:32:46 (MST)

Thats it Fred I don't want to see the same thing happen again. Support the troops.
Rick England
USA - Thursday, March 20, 2003 at 08:00:07 (MST)

Bang The Gong!!!!!LET`S GET IT ON!!!!!!!!! War is is on...all I can can do is support our troops and pray for a quick ending. Don`t be "Half-Steppin"and "Bullshittin".......
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, March 20, 2003 at 06:48:57 (MST)

I am ready Gale. It was good to hear from you yesturday. I can't wait to get to Atlanta. It looks like the turn out will be the best. Flight be careful out there
Rick England
USA - Thursday, March 20, 2003 at 06:07:49 (MST)

Yes the war has started!! All politics aside, I hope our troops come through OK. I have total confidence in there abilities and fortitude, but you never know for sure what's in store. I watched the news a little before heading to work this morning, it was the last few hours of the countdown. What struck me as most bizarre, was the way the news presented all the scenarios and possibillities. I swear it reminded me of a Superbowl pregame show, with retired Generals instead of retired Jocks. Grab some popcorn and get comfortable, This is reality TV. Speaking of television, do you know why there aren't any Iraquis on Star Trek?..........Because it's in the future..........,Aloha, Greg
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Wednesday, March 19, 2003 at 22:45:29 (MST)

Hello flight, well the fat is in the fire, no politics here, just remember our guys and gals in uniform need our prayers. subject 2, I don't normally read anything the patriot writes but something caught my eye as I was passing it up. IT IS THIS STATEMENT Quote"If you do get large, painful blisters for no apparent reason, don't pop them, if you must, don't let the liquid from the blister get on any other area, the stuff just keeps on spreading."end Quote. I was a chemical NCO in 1968 and continued that job off and on till I retired in 1997. when I went thru the school in 68 I was exposed to blister agent (it was a very controlled exposure) but the blister I got from it DID NOT spread when it broke and the fluid from it ran down my arm. mustard agent is very nasty but trust me once it is absorbed in the skin and causes a blister, it has done it's job. the blister is just a normal blister like when you burn your finger on something hot. anyway my point is, the patriot is not as knowledgable as he would like us to think. enough about that. Later, Don
Don Miller
AZ USA - Wednesday, March 19, 2003 at 21:09:01 (MST)

pop sounds good but have to see if i can get that date off. I will take susan to pop tho. gale, what kinda ragtop u have>.You coming thru here? dang, air war has started, says prayer for all those pilots. ground forces too. Hey, y are u telling us about yellow alerts and stuff like that? I think most of us have on radio and tv. jeeze. Gale, sounds like u ready to get they heck out of the house for a while, chuckle.ME TOO.
alvis
USA - Wednesday, March 19, 2003 at 20:03:37 (MST)

Flight, remember to bring your photo albums to Atlanta !! Plenty of time to get them together.......so, get on it. Yeah, I'm getting excited ....so what. War !!! what is it good for???...absolutely NOTHIN!!!!! Ain't gonna let it break my stride. Alvis, (anyone else), Pop A Top is sounding good about May 3rd or so. Got my "ragtop" out (hopefully a new paint job) and ready to cruise. Lee Wood .....are you out there???? Come on guys, let's take this site back.....Mark & Larry created it for us !!! I'm clear, Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Wednesday, March 19, 2003 at 18:21:54 (MST)

Subject: Bush's Dilemma > > > >You are the President of the U.S.A. and you've just learned that there >is an asteroid headed for France that will wipe out their entire >country. It is scheduled to hit about 2.30 a.m. in just two days time >from now. You have enough ships and military personnel nearby to >evacuate them safely, but they are on stand-by in case of war with Iraq > >Your question: do you set the VCR to record the asteroid hitting >France, or do you stay up to watch it live?
The Patriot
USA - Wednesday, March 19, 2003 at 12:53:24 (MST)

NLETS MESSAGE (ALL REGIONS) 03/17/03 MESSAGE FROM FBI COUNTERTERRORISM DIVISION, WASHINGTON, D.C. BRING TO THE IMMEDIATE ATTENTION OF COMMAND PERSONNEL HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISORY SYSTEM?HOMELAND SECURITY INFORMATION UPDATE?THREAT LEVEL RAISED FROM YELLOW (ELEVATED) TO ORANGE (HIGH). THE POSSIBILITY OF MILITARY ACTION IN IRAQ HAS PROMPTED AN INCREASE IN THREATS DIRECTED AGAINST THE UNITED STATES AND U.S. INTERESTS ABROAD. THEREFORE, THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY HAS INCREASED THE NATIONAL THREAT LEVEL FROM "ELEVATED" (YELLOW) TO "HIGH" (ORANGE). THIS ACTION IS BASED ON INTELLIGENCE RECEIVED AND ANALYZED BY THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY. THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY BELIEVES THAT TERRORISTS WILL ATTEMPT MULTIPLE ATTACKS AGAINST U.S. AND COALITION TARGETS WORLDWIDE IN THE EVENT OF A U.S.-LED MILITARY CAMPAIGN AGAINST SADDAM HUSSEIN. AL-QAEDA CONTINUES TO BE THE PRINCIPAL THREAT. USAMA BIN LADEN HAS LONG VIEWED POSSIBLE U.S. ACTION IN IRAQ AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROPAGATE HIS WORLD VIEW THAT THE UNITED STATES IS AT WAR WITH ISLAM. AL-QAEDA PROBABLY WOULD ATTEMPT TO LAUNCH TERRORIST ATTACKS AGAINST U.S. INTERESTS CLAIMING IT WAS DEFENDING MUSLIMS OR "THE IRAQI PEOPLE" RATHER THAN SADDAM HUSSEIN'S REGIME. THE MARCH 1, 2003 APPREHENSION OF SENIOR AL-QAEDA COORDINATOR KHALID SHAIKH MOHAMMED (KSM) HAS PUT THE AL-QAEDA SENIOR LEADERSHIP ON THE DEFENSIVE--AND WILL BE DEBILITATING IN THE LONG TERM. HOWEVER, THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY BELIEVES THAT KSM'S CAPTURE WILL NOT NECESSARILY AFFECT OPERATIONS THAT ARE READY OR NEARLY READY FOR EXECUTION, AS FOR THESE OPERATIONS THE LEADERSHIP HAS ALREADY PROVIDED ITS APPROVAL AND THE NECESSARY RESOURCES. THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY EXPECTS AL-QAEDA TO ATTACK TARGETS THAT OFFER THE BEST COMBINATION OF MASS CASUALTIES, SYMBOLISM, ECONOMIC DAMAGE, AND PSYCHOLOGICAL IMPACT. IN RECENT MONTHS THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS OF SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY IN AND AROUND MILITARY FACILITIES, PORTS AND WATERWAYS, GENERAL INFRASTRUCTURE (BRIDGES, DAMS, POWER GENERATING FACILITIES), AND TARGETS THAT ARE CONSIDERED SYMBOLIC TO U.S. POWER AND INFLUENCE. AL-QAEDA PROBABLY HAS BOTH LARGE AND SMALL SCALE ATTACKS IN PREPARATION WHICH IT WILL ATTEMPT TO LAUNCH IN THE EVENT OF A U.S.-LED MILITARY CONFLICT WITH SADDAM HUSSEIN. AL-QAEDA MAY BE IN THE LAST STAGES OF PLANNING FOR LARGE-SCALE ATTACKS. THERE ARE MANY RECENT INDICATIONS THIS PLANNING INCLUDES THE USE OF CHEMICAL, BIOLOGICAL, AND/OR RADIOLOGICAL MATERIALS. AL-QAEDA SPOKESMAN ABU GHAYTH LAST SUMMER CITED THE FEBRUARY 12, 1991 U.S. BOMBING OF AN IRAQI BOMB SHELTER--WHICH KILLED A NUMBER OF IRAQI CIVILIANS--TO JUSTIFY A CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS (CBW) ATTACK AGAINST THE UNITED STATES. THE DISCOVERY OF RICIN IN LONDON RAISES CONCERN THAT EXTREMISTS ARE PLANNING TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON LONGSTANDING THREATS OF POISON PLOTS AGAINST U.S., BRITISH, AND ISRAELI INTERESTS--AND POSSIBLY OTHER TARGETS IN EUROPE. AL-QAEDA'S INTEREST IN CYANIDE AND OTHER POISONOUS GASES, AND REPORTING THAT THE GROUP WOULD USE THEM IN ENCLOSED SPACES, SUGGESTS THE GROUP MAY ATTEMPT TO EMPLOY SUCH WEAPONS IN BUILDINGS OR IN AIRCRAFT OR IN SUBWAY OR RAILWAY CARS. OTHER REPORTING INDICATES AL-QAEDA INTEREST IN EMPLOYING SO-CALLED "DIRTY BOMBS"--IMPROVISED RADIATION DISPERSAL DEVICES. OTHER THREATS COME FROM IRAQI STATE AGENTS, IRAQI SURROGATE GROUPS, OTHER REGIONAL EXTREMIST ORGANIZATIONS, AND AD HOC GROUPS OR DISGRUNTLED INDIVIDUALS NOT CONNECTED TO EXISTING TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS. SLEEPER AGENTS REPRESENT A SIGNIFICANT THREAT FROM THE IRAQI INTELLIGENCE SERVICE (IIS). THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY ASSESSES THE IIS TO BE INCONSISTENTLY COMPETENT PRACTITIONERS OF CONVENTIONAL TERRORIST METHODS AND TECHNIQUES, TO INCLUDE ASSASSINATIONS, ARMED ASSAULTS, HIJACKINGS, KIDNAPPINGS, AND BOMBINGS. WE KNOW FROM PREVIOUS ATTEMPTED OPERATIONS THAT SOME IRAQI STATE AGENTS CAN CONSTRUCT SOPHISTICATED IMPROVISED EXPLOSIVE DEVICES (IEDS); WE ARE UNSURE, HOWEVER, IF THEY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED CHEMICAL OR BIOLOGICAL MATERIALS FROM THE REGIME'S INVENTORY FOR EMPLOYMENT IN THE REGION OR ABROAD. THE INTENSITY AND SCOPE OF OPPOSITION TO A U.S.-LED WAR AGAINST SADDAM HUSSEIN HAS GROWN TO LEVELS THAT FAR EXCEED ANY SUCH OPPOSITION THAT EXISTED IN 1991. SMALL ATTACKS COULD BE CONDUCTED BY DISGRUNTLED INDIVIDUALS OR SMALL, AD HOC GROUPS ACTING WITHOUT CENTRAL DIRECTION BUT OUT OF SYMPATHY FOR IRAQ'S PLIGHT OR THEIR OWN GRIEVANCES WITH THE UNITED STATES OR THE COALITION. RECIPIENTS ARE REMINDED TO REMAIN ALERT TO THE POTENTIAL FOR TERRORIST ACTIVITY AND ATTACKS. INFORMATION ON SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY SHOULD BE REPORTED IMMEDIATELY TO THE NEAREST FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE (JTTF). STATE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE ENCOURAGED TO DISCUSS APPROPRIATE MEASURES FOR THEIR RESPECTIVE COMMUNITIES WITH THEIR DESIGNATED JTTF. END MESSAGE
Dan Hertlein
USA - Wednesday, March 19, 2003 at 08:48:46 (MST)

Hi, I just wanted to let you know that a bit of the wording you have from Beth Chapman's "Stand up for America" speech is not quite right. Beth mentioned some musical groups (The Beastie Boys, Dixie Chicks) and Barbra Streisand in her speech as well as the other media stars that are listed in the version of her speech posted here. There are some other minor corrections as well. The actual text of her speech can be seen at her own website at http://www.bethchapman.com/stand%20up%20speech.htm
Katie
Tucson, AZ USA - Wednesday, March 19, 2003 at 08:34:51 (MST)

I am gay and a hard man is good to find
the patroit
USA - Tuesday, March 18, 2003 at 18:15:24 (MST)

WORLD'S EASIEST QUIZ (Passing requires 4 correct answers) 1) How long did the Hundred Years War last? 2) Which country makes Panama hats? 3) From which animal do we get catgut? 4) In which month do Russians celebrate the October Revolution? 5) What is a camel's hair brush made of? 6) The Canary Islands in the Pacific are named after what animal? 7) What was King George VI's first name? 8) What color is a purple finch? 9) Where are Chinese gooseberries from? 10) What is the color of the black box in a commercial airplane?
The Joker
USA - Tuesday, March 18, 2003 at 18:02:39 (MST)

----- Original Message ----- From: adhartman To: Albert Hartman Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 7:03 AM Subject: Interesting reading..... From: SFC Red Thomas (Ret) Armor Master Gunner Mesa, AZ Unlimited reproduction and distribution is authorized. Just give me credit for my work, and, keep in context. Since the media has decided to scare everyone with predictions of chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf I decided to write a paper and keep things in their proper perspective. I am a retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert. Lesson number one: In the mid 1990s there were a series of nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations. Given perfect conditions for an attack less than 10% of the people there were injured (the injured were better in a few hours) and only one percent of the injured died. 60 Minutes once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a thousand people, well he didn't tell you the thousand dead people per drop was theoretical. Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff was to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill Sergeant too). Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (read this sentence again out loud!). These weapons are about terror, if you remain calm, you will probably not die. This is far less scary than the media and their "Experts," make it sound. Chemical Weapons Chemical weapons are categorized as nerve, blood, blister, and Incapacitating agents. Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians they are not weapons of mass destruction they are "area denial," and terror weapons that don't destroy anything. When you leave the area you almost always leave the risk. That's the difference; you can leave the area and the risk but soldiers may have to stay put and sit through it and that's why they need all that spiffy gear. These are not gasses, they are vapors and/or air borne particles. The agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill/injure, and that defines when/how it's used. Every day we have a morning and evening inversion where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day. So, a chemical attack will have it's best effect an hour of so either side of sunrise/sunset. Also, being vapors and airborne particles they are heavier than air so they will seek low places like ditches, basements and underground garages. This stuff won't work when it's freezing, it doesn't last when it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin too fast. They've got to get this stuff on you, or, get you to inhale it for it to work. They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough to kill or wound you. Too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted. What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to do with military grade agents and equipment so you can imagine how hard it will be for terrorists. The more you know about this stuff the more you realize how hard it is to use. We'll start by talking about nerve agents. You have these in your house, plain old bug killer (like Raid) is nerve agent. All nerve agents work the same way; they are cholinesterase inhibitors that mess up the signals your nervous system uses to make your body function. It can harm you if you get it on your skin but it works best if they can get you to inhale it. If you don't die in the first minute and you can leave the area you're probably gonna live. The military's antidote for all nerve agents is atropine and pralidoxime chloride. Neither one of these does anything to cure the nerve agent, they send your body into overdrive to keep you alive for five minutes, after that the agent is used up. Your best protection is fresh air and staying calm. Listed below are the symptoms for nerve agent poisoning: Sudden headache, Dimness of vision (someone you're looking at will have pinpointed pupils), runny nose, excessive saliva or drooling difficulty breathing, tightness in chest, nausea, stomach cramps, twitching of exposed skin where a liquid just got on you. If you are in public and you start experiencing these symptoms, first ask yourself, did anything out of the ordinary just happen, a loud pop, did someone spray something on the crowd? Are other people getting sick too? Is there an odor of new mown hay, green corn, something fruity, or camphor where it shouldn't be? If the answer is yes, then calmly (if you panic you breathe faster and inhale more air/poison) leave the area and head upwind, or, outside. Fresh air is the best "right now antidote" If you have a blob of liquid that looks like molasses or Kayro syrup on you; blot it or scrape it off and away from yourself with anything disposable. This stuff works based on your body weight, what a crop duster uses to kill bugs won't hurt you unless you stand there and breathe it in real deep, then lick the residue off the ground for a while. Remember they have to do all the work, they have to get the concentration up and keep it up for several minutes while all you have to do is quit getting it on you/quit breathing it by putting space between you and the attack. Blood agents are cyanide or arsine which effect your blood's ability to provide oxygen to your tissue. The scenario for attack would be the same as nerve agent. Look for a pop or someone splashing/spraying something and folks around there getting woozy/falling down. The telltale smells are bitter almonds or garlic where it shouldn't be. The symptoms are blue lips, blue under the fingernails rapid breathing. The military's antidote is amyl nitride and just like nerve agent antidote it just keeps your body working for five minutes till the toxins are used up. Fresh air is the your best individual chance. Blister agents (distilled mustard) are so nasty that nobody wants to even handle it let alone use it. It's almost impossible to handle safely and may have delayed effect of up to 12 hours. The attack scenario is also limited to the things you'd see from other chemicals. If you do get large, painful blisters for no apparent reason, don't pop them, if you must, don't let the liquid from the blister get on any other area, the stuff just keeps on spreading. It's just as likely to harm the user as the target. Soap, water, sunshine, and fresh air are this stuff's enemy. Bottom line on chemical weapons (it's the same if they use industrial chemical spills); they are intended to make you panic, to terrorize you, to herd you like sheep to the wolves. If there is an attack, leave the area and go upwind, or to the sides of the wind stream. They have to get the stuff to you, and on you. You're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver on any given day than be hurt by one of these attacks. Your odds get better if you leave the area. Soap, water, time, and fresh air really deal this stuff a knock-out-punch. Don't let fear of an isolated attack rule your life. The odds are really on your side. Nuclear Weapons Nuclear bombs. These are the only weapons of mass destruction on earth. The effects of a nuclear bomb are heat, blast, EMP, and radiation. If you see a bright flash of light like the sun, where the sun isn't, fall to the ground! The heat will be over a second. Then there will be two blast waves, one out going, and one on it's way back. Don't stand up to see what happened after the first wave; anything that's going to happen will have happened in two full minutes. These will be low yield devices and will not level whole cities. If you live through the heat, blast, and initial burst of radiation, you'll probably live for a very, very long time. Radiation will not create fifty foot tall women, or giant ants and grass hoppers the size of tanks. These will be at the most 1 kiloton bombs; that's the equivalent of 1,000 tons of TNT. Here's the real deal, flying debris and radiation will kill a lot of exposed (not all!) people within a half mile of the blast. Under perfect conditions this is about a half mile circle of death and destruction, but, when it's done it's done. EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse and it will fry every electronic device for a good distance, it's impossible to say what and how far but probably not over a couple of miles from ground zero is a good guess. Cars, cell phones, computers, ATMs, you name it, all will be out of order. There are lots of kinds of radiation, you only need to worry about three, the others you have lived with for years. You need to worry about "Ionizing radiation," these are little sub atomic particles that go whizzing along at the speed of light. They hit individual cells in your body, kill the nucleus and keep on going. That's how you get radiation poisoning, you have so many dead cells in your body that the decaying cells poison you. It's the same as people getting radiation treatments for cancer, only a bigger area gets radiated. The good news is you don't have to just sit there and take it, and there's lots you can do rather than panic. First; your skin will stop alpha particles, a page of a news paper or your clothing will stop beta particles, you just gotta try and avoid inhaling dust that's contaminated with atoms that are emitting these things and you'll be generally safe from them. Gamma rays are particles that travel like rays (quantum physics makes my brain hurt) and they create the same damage as alpha and beta particles only they keep going and kill lots of cells as they go all the way through your body. It takes a lot to stop these things, lots of dense material, on the other hand it takes a lot of this to kill you. Your defense is as always to not panic. Basic hygiene and normal preparation are your friends. All canned or frozen food is safe to eat. The radiation poisoning will not effect plants so fruits and vegetables are OK if there is no dust on em (rinse em off if there is). If you don't have running water and you need to collect rain water or use water from wherever, just let it sit for thirty minutes and skim off the water gently from the top. The dust with the bad stuff in it will settle and the remaining water can be used for the toilet which will still work if you have a bucket of water to pour in the tank. Biological Weapons Finally there's biological warfare. There's not much to cover here. Basic personal hygiene and sanitation will take you further than a million doctors. Wash your hands often, don't share dirnks, food, sloppy kisses, etc., .... with strangers. Keep your garbage can with a tight lid on it, don't have standing water (like old buckets, ditches, or kiddie pools) laying around to allow mosquitoes breeding room. This stuff is carried by vectors, that is bugs, rodents, and contaminated material. If biological warfare is so easy as the TV makes it sound, why has Saddam Hussein spent twenty years, millions, and millions of dollars trying to get it right? If you're clean of person and home you eat well and are active you're gonna live. Overall preparation for any terrorist attack is the same as you'd take for a big storm. If you want a gas mask, fine, go get one. I know this stuff and I'm not getting one and I told my Mom not to bother with one either (how's that for confidence). We have a week's worth of cash, several days worth of canned goods and plenty of soap and water. We don't leave stuff out to attract bugs or rodents so we don't have them. These people can't conceive a nation this big with this much resources. These weapons are made to cause panic, terror, and to demoralize. If we don't run around like sheep they won't use this stuff after they find out it's no fun. The government is going nuts over this stuff because they have to protect every inch of America. You've only gotta protect yourself, and by doing that, you help the country. Finally, there are millions of caveats to everything I wrote here and you can think up specific scenarios where my advice isn't the best. This letter is supposed to help the greatest number of people under the greatest number of situations. If you don't like my work, don't nit pick, just sit down and explain chemical, nuclear, and biological warfare in a document around three pages long yourself. This is how we the people of the United States can rob these people of their most desired goal, your terror. SFC Red Thomas (Ret)
The Patriot
USA - Tuesday, March 18, 2003 at 17:54:01 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT... HI JOKER THANS FOR MAKING ME SMILE LOL... WANT TO SAY HELLO TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS. I TELL YA CANT WAIT FOR ATLANA .. WELL YOU ALL BE SAFE ABROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Tuesday, March 18, 2003 at 12:33:54 (MST)

She was sooo blonde: ...she took a ruler to bed to see how long she slept. ...she sent me a fax with a stamp on it. ...she thought a quarterback was a refund. ...she tried to put M&M's in alphabetical order ...she thought Boyz II Men was a day care center. She was Sooo blonde: ...she thought Eartha Kitt was a set of garden tools. ...she thought General Motors was in the army. ...she thought Meow Mix was a CD for cats. ...she thought TuPac Shakur was a Jewish holiday. ...under "education" on her job application, she put "Hooked on Phonics."She was Sooo blonde: ...she tripped over a cordless phone. ...she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "concentrate." ...she told me to meet her at the corner of "WALK" and "ONE WAY." ...at the bottom of the application where it says "sign here," she put "Sagittarius." ...she asked for a price check at the Dollar Store. She was Sooo blonde: ...she studied for a blood test. ...she thought she needed a token to get on "Soul Train." ...she sold the car for gas money! ...when she missed the 44 bus, she took the 22 bus twice instead. ...when she went to the airport and saw a sign that said "Airport Left,"she went home. She was Sooo blonde: ...when she heard that 90% of all crimes occur around the home, she moved. ...she thinks Taco Bell is the Mexican phone company. ...if she spoke her mind, she'd be speechless. ...she thought that she could not use her AM radio in the evening. My Favorite: ...she had a shirt that said "TGIF," which she thought stood for "This Goes In Front." /////////////////////////////////////////////
The Joker
USA - Tuesday, March 18, 2003 at 11:26:54 (MST)

EVEN GOD ENJOYS A GOOD LAUGH......>>>>There were 3 good arguments that Jesus was Black:>>1. He called everyone "brother.">>2. He liked Gospel.>>3. He couldn't get a fair trial.>>>>But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Jewish: 1.>>He went into His Father's>>business.>>2. He lived at home until he was 33.>>3. He was sure his Mother was a virgin and his Mother was sure he was>>God.>>>>But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Italian:>>1. He talked with his hands.>>2. He had wine with every meal.>>3. He used olive oil.>>>>But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was a>>Californian:>>1. He never cut his hair.>>2. He walked around barefoot all the time.>>3. He started a new religion.>>>>But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Irish:>>1. He never got married.>>2. He was always telling stories.>>3. He loved green pastures.>>>>But the most compelling evidence of all - 3 proofs that Jesus was a>>woman:>>1. He fed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food.>>2. He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just>>didn't get it.>>3. And even when He was dead, He had to get up because there was work to>>do.>>>>AMEN!>>>>
The Patriot
USA - Tuesday, March 18, 2003 at 11:18:35 (MST)

Don & Patty Whigham, do you have a new e-mail addy? If you do, send it to me. I sent you an e-mail and it came back unknown. Hope to see you in Atlanta...will call this weekend if I don't hear from you. Clear, Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Tuesday, March 18, 2003 at 06:18:10 (MST)

Bruno, Hi back & great to see you two post, getting close to your anniversary date, hope all is together with you both. Greg (the animal) Henkel, is a pilot we flew with a lot or at least i did, could match me or Fred Alvis in Craziness & was very good with a Helicopter Too. To say the least, we pulled a few shenanigans, to say the most- well------ I am surely glad to see thet you may be able to do something with the Observer, the Patriot & hopefully even muy guy guy pan. Am sure tired of scrolling down to get to the real commo. Diane, GOD is on your shoulder (which one?), both of course!! Later, Smitty
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
sheridan, Wy. USA - Monday, March 17, 2003 at 14:36:55 (MST)

Gale, Think Pappy 1st name was Randal(Randy). The more I think about it-he was from AL. Also I remember he was always popping his top front teeth out (false teeth). He did look older than he was, he may have been older me. They (draft) were hot after our age group at the time. My b-day is in Jan so I am a few months older than you. Glad I still have my snow shovel on the front porch. Looks like storm coming. Have a good one! Larry
Larry Potter 67-68
Cheyenne, WY USA - Monday, March 17, 2003 at 13:36:17 (MST)

Bernie, Smitty, Animal & Diane,.Just to Say hello. Greg, give me your last name hombre.I'm trying to put a face to it.E'nuff Said.
Bruno E Sanchez <bsanchez@stx.rr.com>
Laredo, Tx USA - Monday, March 17, 2003 at 11:14:43 (MST)

Just a note to say thanks again to all the notes I have been getting on the Flight Log and by personal e-mail concerning my husband, Claud Strother, who was killed in 1972. I appreciate all of the sharing of memories. Thanks too to you Judith, for your responsiveness. I have passed the word about this website to his family who will also be appreciative to read any posted memories or other details. Regards, Diane (Strother) Moy
Diane <df78759@aol.com>
Austin, USA - Monday, March 17, 2003 at 09:08:49 (MST)

Fred(ZZ), I knew the EDA was April 4th, just thought we'd all remember it better if it was April 1st. :>)). Let us know when a road trip to the Pop can be arranged(get ready Mark-wedding party!!!), especially if you can't make Atlanta. But we all want you both in Atlanta. Bernie, Bruno and Tom! It's all too wonderful! Flight, this type of event(Claud Strothers' wife contacting the site) can happen simply through posting memorials at both www.thevirtualwall.org and www.virtualwall.org. From one, a direct link to the 129th is posted, the other site will at least open some doors. So, please post memorials for anyone you remember from Viet Nam, and add to those memorials already posted. If you can't remember a name, perhaps we can help. You don't need too much information to get started. I post memorials to our fallen 129AHC brothers and friends on their birthdays, which I also post here. It's emotional, but it must be done, and now we know that not only does it give us pause to ponder and remember, but it also aids in healing through opening the doors of communication with others who remember. I'll be happy to help, if you need me. Having said that, I'm so glad to see the sharing and healing coming back to the site-thank you David and Mark. For those of you who didn't post because of all the discord-you now are without excuses....I know several of you.... so, "Welcome Home" again. Always there for you-Gently(Geez, I made this as long as the "Other" two people...sorry Flight).
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Heaven, again., USA - Monday, March 17, 2003 at 08:53:25 (MST)

Larry, JW, I had just turned 26 when I got to Nam and I remember Pappy was a little older than me. Real nice guy. Do you remember his first name? He sent one of those "warning-nam vet returning" letters to my family (remember them?). I pulled CQ a couple of nights, so, I'm sure we were in the same area at times. Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Monday, March 17, 2003 at 06:35:53 (MST)

Just to let everyone know, I have removed 'The Observer' posts from display. If any further posts occur that should be removed feel free to contact me.
David Steinbrunner <webmaster@129th.net>
OH USA - Monday, March 17, 2003 at 06:21:51 (MST)

I was just wondering if there was a way to post a picture of my Uncle in the Gallery? To see if someone might recognize him.
Melody Pershall <melody1181@yahoo.com>
Amarillo, TX USA - Monday, March 17, 2003 at 03:42:38 (MST)

Gale and JW, Worked with Pappy Sitz from Georgia. Also knew Garrison very well, we almost got in alot of trouble one night in the village. Plus other times. Capt Nye (good Doc) signed my immunization certificate also think I forged his name when I did not want to take shots. Pappy was younger than me. Told me once he was drafted twice got off the 1st time because they didn't know he was married. I only saw one draftee who was older than I the whole time in-country.. I was 26yrs old when I arrived in Dong Ba Thin Mar 1967. Mark and Dee:Glad you are back and doing better. See ya, Larry
Larry Potter 67-68
Cheyenne, wy USA - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 21:39:21 (MST)

.....Evenin' Flight..............so sorry for not being here so much.....complications goin' on. Dee and I both went on some light, head meds...........dont know the reason yet.....just recall last week one day I went from feeling the highest I ever have after talking to a vet, and by night fall, was in the depts of hell. Think I might of learned to much, to fast, in to lil' time abour Larry..... Just want you all to know that we are hangin' tuff.........Diane......WELCOME to the 129th.......what a blessing for all...........ALSO.........am working on some sort of a block for the "observer"....have david ( The webmaster ) looking into to it.........also.....David and his wife had a baby the 4th of this month.........send them a howdy...................Atlanta sure sounds great....Huey rides!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...had a ride 3 years ago........was wonderful.......got to preflight the bird and also ride in the left rear seat. Just like Larry.................We love you guys./.............lots of bikes out here now....weather has took a change..............if ya all are comin' this way, please let us know..........so we can plan..........we love you all very much......take care................always a brother and sister............Mark and Dee
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 18:50:57 (MST)

larry and Gale, do you remember any of medics=Ricky koebel,Leslie Garrison.Willie Ray Orum,Sgt Mardis, Capt Nye
J.W. Wilson <kas3@ncfredom.net>
USA - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 18:15:47 (MST)

Larry, I got to Dong Bi Thin on May 27th of 67 and went up to Anson about August. The only clerk that I remember at Anson was a guy they called "Pappy" because he was a couple of years older. Here's some more names for you to wrestle with: Klepple, Salisbury, Denault, Villamaino (394th), Nazarro, Fisher, Jorgensen, Sgt Miedowicz, Sobieralski, Sgt Ellish, Sgt Smith, McMahon.....??? Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 17:53:37 (MST)

J W, Don't remember Sharp by name, if he was in orderly room I would know him. Some of the clerks I remember Friedig, Chris from CA, Smithty who gunned on old Mans ship(partime) and got his wings. Most of the time there were 4 or 5 clerks. Jackson and Richardson hung out in Orderly alot because they were crewchief and gunner on the CO ship. see ya Larry
Larry Potter 67-68
Cheyenne, WY USA - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 17:46:10 (MST)

Hi Larry, do you remember a company clerk who's last name was Sharp
J. W. Wilson <kas3@ncfredom.net>
Kinston, NC USA - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 17:32:10 (MST)

Gale, I was at Dong Ba Thin March 67 to early fall when rear moved north to Lane. Was Clerk in Orderly Room. Left May 7, 1968 from An Son. Was Company Clerk by then. Top was S.L. Johnson what a guy. Some of the names you mentioned are familiar. I was in Headquarters platoon I think. Hooch real close to Orderly Room, 1st row up. The shame is I do not remember names. Faces I see. I remember many of the incidents on the log here. Reports were always made. See Ya Larry
Larry Potter 67-68
Cheyenne, WY USA - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 13:58:53 (MST)

Larry, What months were you in the 129th. I was there May 67-May 68. I started out crewing slicks, earned my wings and went to 2nd plt maintenance for the rest. Still flew alot though on test flights. I knew a Potter , but, not sure of the 1st name. I was in hootch 406 for while , then went to 408. In my hootch was Czuba, Whigham, May, Warner, White, Alvarado and Anderson. Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 07:47:38 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT,, MENT SAYING SORRY I TYPE WITH ONE FINGER BE SAFE RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET , MD USA - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 06:26:58 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT... LARRY KIDS ARE ALWAYS SENDING FUNNY THINGS LIKEDWHAT YOURS SAID MY GRAND SON AND HIS MOM WERE WACHING A VIDIO IT WAS ABOUT BAD DREAMS ANDAT TIMES YOU CAN PRAY TO GODAND ASK HIM TO HELP YOU ..I ASKED IF HE PRAYED HE TOLD ME THAT HE'S NOT READY FOR THAT CONFRONTATION HECH I HAD TO ASK WIFE TO SPELL THAT WORD.. ON THAT ARTICLE YOU SENT I TELL YA I HAVE MOST OF THEM MY HANDS DONT MAKE A FIST CANT LIFT LEFT ARM UO NO REACH AT ALL . WELL YOU TAKE CARE BROTHER , ANT TO ALL MY OTHERS AND SISTERS TAKE CARE BE SAFE..RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Sunday, March 16, 2003 at 06:24:02 (MST)

Hi flight it looks like i will have to start cutting my lawn this week by the way the grass is growing. I know some of you will be glad to put up those snow shelves
J. W. Wilson <kas3@ncfredom.net>
USA - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 20:46:30 (MST)

Amen to what you have been saying Gale. My 5yr old grandson told me I was not as old as dirt because it was made in the Sixties. Here's an interesting story from Denver Post 3-7-03. "STRESS AFFLICTS VETS;VIETNAM VETERANS WHO SUFFER POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER ARE ALSO MORE LIKELY TO HAVE AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES SUCH AS ARTHRITIS, PSORIASIS AND HYPOTHYROIDISM, A STUDY FOUND. The analysis of more than 4,000 Vietnam veterans is the first to show that such stress can damage the immune systen enough to cause disease. "When you are exposed to an extremely traumatic event, it affects both your mind and your body," said Rachel Yehuda, director of the Post-tramatic Stress Disorder program at the Bronx Veterans Medical Center in New York. She was not connected with the study." I suffer from Hypothyroidism but didn't think I have PTSD. Hypothyroidism is usually a fround in older women I think. Any comments out there. Have a great week-end.Larry
Larry Potter 67-68 <pot1941@wvista.net>
Cheyenne , WY USA - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 16:23:16 (MST)

dont know ur age gale, but u look like time has been kind to you. did u say road trip? yessssssssssssssssssssssss road trip.
alvis
USA - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 15:57:06 (MST)

Alvis, you sure gotta a way with words buddy. ;o) I left the Nam on my birthday in 68 and when I got to States , I had another birthday.....does that make me another year older? Man I hope not...I'm older than dirt now!!! Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 15:34:24 (MST)

thank you kim for ur well wishes. correction of dates....she is landing in lz ohare april 4th at 7 am. She is leaving from either brisbane or sydney, laughing cause as time zones and date lines are figured, despite over nighting in japan, she arrives here b4 she left. Dang, i sure would like to see that plane leave there cause it gets here b4 it leaves,,whew. I think the observer suffers from a twisted small ego problem,as well as small something else.This is getting tireing, so let me state how i feel.Not only is he and the pateriot annoying buttheads, but i think the best part of them ran down there mothers chin. How do u like me now u insufferable idiots.Get the heck out of here.
alvis
USA - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 15:21:01 (MST)

What the hell is going on here??????? Can't you guys preach some where else and leave us alone. Patriot , Observer..........who's next?? I think you guys are really Beavis and Butthead. What idiots you are making out of yourselves.....nobody is reading what you write, so, why bother? Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 14:25:23 (MST)

American and Australian Civilian and Military Women Who Died in the Viet Nam War (1959-1975) Military -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- U.S. Army -- * 2nd Lt. Carol Ann Elizabeth Drazba * 2nd Lt. Elizabeth Ann Jones Lt. Drazba and Lt. Jones were assigned to the 3rd Field Hospital in Saigon. They died in a helicopter crash near Saigon, February 18, 1966. Drazba was from Dunmore, PA, Jones from Allendale, SC. Both were 22 years old. * Capt. Eleanor Grace Alexander * 1st Lt. Hedwig Diane Orlowski Capt. Alexander of Westwood, NJ, and Lt. Orlowski of Detroit, MI, died November 30, 1967. Alexander, stationed at the 85th Evac., and Orlowski, stationed at the 67th Evac. in Qui Nhon, had been sent to a hospital in Pleiku to help out during a push. With them when their plane crashed on the return trip to Qui Nhon were two other nurses, Jerome E. Olmstead of Clintonville, WI, and Kenneth R. Shoemaker, Jr. of Owensboro, KY. Alexander was 27, Orlowski 23. Both were posthumously awarded Bronze Stars. * 2nd Lt. Pamela Dorothy Donovan Lt. Donovan, from Allston, MA, became seriously ill and died on July 8, 1968. She was assigned to the 85th Evac. in Qui Nhon. She was 26 years old. * 1st Lt. Sharon Ann Lane Lt. Lane died from shrapnel wounds when the 312th Evac. at Chu Lai was hit by rockets on June 8, 1969. From Canton, OH, she was a month short of her 26th birthday. She was posthumously awarded the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross with Palm and the Bronze Star for Heroism. In 1970, the recovery room at Fitzsimmons Army Hospital in Denver, where Lt. Lane had been assigned before going to Viet Nam, was dedicated in her honor. In 1973, Aultman Hospital in Canton, OH, where Lane had attended nursing school, erected a bronze statue of Lane. The names of 110 local servicemen killed in Vietnam are on the base of the statue. * Lt. Col. Annie Ruth Graham, Chief Nurse at 91st Evac. Hospital, Tuy Hoa Lt. Col. Graham, from Efland, NC, suffered a stroke in August 14, 1968 and was evacuated to Japan where she died four days later. A veteran of both World War II and Korea, she was 52. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- U.S. Air Force -- * Capt. Mary Therese Klinker Capt. Klinker, a flight nurse assigned to Clark Air Base in the Philippines, was on the C-5A Galaxy which crashed on April 4 outside Saigon while evacuating Vietnamese orphans. This is known as the Operation Babylift crash. From Lafayette, IN, she was 27. She was posthumously awarded the Airman's Medal for Heroism and the Meritorious Service Medal. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Australian Nurse Corps -- * Barbara Black Barbara died at Vung Tau, Vietnam in 1971. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- American Red Cross -- * Hannah Crews Died in a jeep accident, Bien Hoa, 1969. * Virginia Kirsch Murdered by U.S. soldier in Cu Chi, 1970. * Lucinda Richter Died of Guillain-Barre Syndrome, Cam Ranh Bay, 1971. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Army Special Services -- * Rosalyn Muskat Died in a jeep accident, Bien Hoa, 1968. * Dorothy Phillips Died in a plane crash, Qui Nhon, 1967. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- U.S. Department of the Navy OICC (Officer in Charge of Construction) * Regina "Reggie" Williams Died of a heart attack in Saigon, 1964. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Catholic Relief Services -- * Gloria Redlin Shot to death in Pleiku, 1969. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Central Intelligence Agency -- * Barbara Robbins Died when a car bomb exploded outside the American Embassy, Saigon, March 30, 1965. * Betty Gebhardt Died in Saigon, 1971. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- United States Agency for International Development -- * Marilyn L. Allan Murdered by a U.S. soldier in Nha Trang, August 16, 1967. * Dr. Breen Ratterman (American Medical Association) Died from injuries suffered in a fall from her apartment balcony in Saigon, October 2, 1969 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Journalists -- * Georgette "Dickey" Chappelle Killed by a mine on patrol with Marines outside Chu Lai, 1965. * Phillipa Schuyler Killed in a firefight, Da Nang, 1966. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Missionaries -- * Carolyn Griswald Killed in raid on leprosarium in Ban Me Thuot during Tet 1968. * Janie A. Makil Shot to death in an ambush, Dalat, 1963. Janie was five months old. * Ruth Thompson Killed in raid on leprosarium in Ban Me Thuot during Tet 1968. * Ruth Wilting Killed in raid on leprosarium in Ban Me Thuot during Tet 1968. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- POW/MIA -- * Evelyn Anderson Captured and burned to death in Kengkok, Laos, 1972. Remains recovered and returned to U.S. * Beatrice Kosin Captured and burned to death in Kengkok, Laos, 1972. Remains recovered and returned to U.S. * Betty Ann Olsen Captured during raid on leprosarium in Ban Me Thuot during Tet 1968. Died in 1968 and was buried somewhere along Ho Chi Minh Trail by fellow POW, Michael Benge. Remains not recovered. * Eleanor Ardel Vietti Captured at leprosarium in Ban Me Thuot, May 30, 1962. Still listed as POW. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operation Babylift -- The following women were killed in the crash, outside Saigon, of the C5-A Galaxy transporting Vietnamese children out of the country on April 4, 1975. All of the women were working for various U.S. government agencies in Saigon at the time of their deaths with the exception of Theresa Drye (a child) and Laurie Stark (a teacher). Sharon Wesley had previously worked for both the American Red Cross and Army Special Services. She chose to stay on in Vietnam after the pullout of U.S. military forces in 1973. * Barbara Adams * Clara Bayot * Nova Bell * Arleta Bertwell * Helen Blackburn * Ann Bottorff * Celeste Brown * Vivienne Clark * Juanita Creel * Mary Ann Crouch * Dorothy Curtiss * Twila Donelson * Helen Drye * Theresa Drye * Mary Lyn Eichen * Elizabeth Fugino * Ruthanne Gasper * Beverly Herbert * Penelope Hindman * Vera Hollibaugh * Dorothy Howard * Barbara Kauvulia * Barbara Maier * Rebecca Martin * Sara Martini * Martha Middlebrook * Katherine Moore * Marta Moschkin * Marion Polgrean * June Poulton * Joan Pray * Sayonna Randall * Anne Reynolds * Marjorie Snow * Laurie Stark * Barbara Stout * Doris Jean Watkins * Sharon Wesley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 59 civilians 9 military -- 68 total OPERATION BABYLIFT - THE FLIGHT... The plane, a C-5A 'Galaxy', was carrying 243 children, 44 escorts, 16 crewmen and 2 flight nurses. These numbers vary according to which news articles you read as totals vary between 305 to 319 on-board. Eight members of the Air Force crew perished in the crash. The plane was enroute to Travis AFB in California. Most of those who perished were in the lowest of three levels in what was then the largest aircraft in the world. A survivor of the crash stated: "Some of us got out through a chute from the top of the plane, but the children (and escorts) at the bottom of the plane didn't have a chance." Air Force Sgt. Jim Hadley, a medical technician from Sacramento, Calif recalled later that oxygen masks dropped down automatically, but the children were sitting two to a seat and there weren't enough masks to go around. "We had to keep moving them from kid to kid." In a early report the U.S. embassy indicated possibly 100 of the children and 10 to 15 adults survived, including the pilot. At least 50 of the children were in the lower cargo level of the plane. The Galaxy had taken-off from Tan Son Nhut airbase and had reached an altitude of approximately 23,000 feet and was approximately 40 miles from Saigon when it's rear clamshell cargo doors blew off crippling its flight controls. In what was described as a "massive explosive decompression" near Vung Tau, the pilot lost control of his flaps, elevators & rudder. The pilot, with only the use of his throttles and ailerons, was able to turn the giant plane back towards Tan Son Nhut. At 5,000 feet Capt. Dennis Traynor, determined that he was unable to reach the runway safely with the crippled plane and set it down approximately 2 miles north of the airport to avoid crashing in a heavily-populated area where it broke into three pieces and exploded. The fact that many did survive such a crash was indeed a result of his flying ability. A Pentagon spokesman at the time commented on Capt. Traynor's efforts to bring the aircraft in safely as "a remarkable demonstration of flying skill." Victor Ubach, a Pan American World Airways pilot who was flying behind and above the crippled Air Force plane said the C-5A pilots "had done one heck of a job" to avoid a worse disaster. South Vietnamese sources said three militiamen on the ground were killed when the airplane fell. At first it was thought the crash may have been attributed to sabotage but later ruled-out by the USAF. The crash investigation was headed by Maj. Gen. Warner E. Newby. The flight-recorder was recovered by a Navy diver on 7 Apr 1975 from the bottom of the South China Sea. A Pentagon spokesman said the plane had undergone minor repairs to its radio and windshield in the Philippines before flying to Saigon but added that had nothing to do with the crash. At the time the USAF had taken delivery of 81 Galaxy's. Wing problems had plagued this immense cargo plane but were not considered a factor in this incident. In spite of it's wing problems this was only the second crash of a C-5A after over 190,000 combined flying hours by the USAF but the first crash resulting in loss-of-life. Two other C-5A's were previously destroyed in a fire while on the ground. Representative Les Aspin and Senator William Proxmire immediately urged the Air Force to ground the remaining 77 C-5A's, pointing to the continuing problem of weak wings. By 8 Apr, Operation Baby Lift had resumed with the arrival of 56 orphans to the U.S. At the time of the crash over 18,000 orphans were being processed for evacuation from South Vietnam for adoption in the U.S. and other countries. Over 25,000 orphans were in South Vietnam in April of 1975. NOTE: We compiled these facts from AP & UPI articles that appeared in the Seattle Times, Seattle P-I and New York Times from 4 April to 8 April of 1975. Roger Young - Vietnam Veteran Pam Young - Vietnam-Era Veteran
The Patriot
USA - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 11:42:39 (MST)

- Observer Post Removed -

Stand Up for America Rally Speech By: Beth Chapman I'm here tonight because men and women of the United States military have given their lives for my freedom. I am not here tonight because Sheryl Crowe, Rosie O'Donnell, Martin Sheen, George Clooney, Jane Fonda or Phil Donahue, sacrificed their lives for me. If my memory serves me correctly, it was not movie stars or musicians, but the United States Military who fought on the shores of Iwo Jima, the jungles of Vietnam, and the beaches of Normandy. Tonight, I say we should support the President of the United States and the U.S. Military and tell the liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippy, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and music and whine somewhere else. After all, if they lived in Iraq, they wouldn't be allowed the freedom of speech they're being given here today. Ironically, they would be put to death at the hands of Sadam Husssein or Osama Bin Laden. I want to know how the very people who are against war because of the loss of life, can possibly be the same people who are for abortion? They are the same people who are for animal rights but against the rights of the unborn. The movie stars say they want to go to Iraq and serve as "human shields" for the Iraqis. I say let them buy a one-way ticket and go. No one likes war. I hate war! But the one thing I hate more is the fact that this country has been forced into war-innocent people have lost their lives - - and there but for the grace of God, it could have been my brother, my husband, or even worse my own son. On December 7, 1941, there are no records of movie stars treading the blazing waters of Pearl Harbor. On September 11, 2001; there are no photos of movie stars standing as "human shields" against the debris and falling bodies ascending from the World Trade Center. There were only policemen and firemen - -underpaid civil servants who gave their all with nothing expected in return. When the USS Cole was bombed, there were no movie stars guarding the ship - - where were the human shields then? If America's movie stars want to be human shields, let them shield the gang-ridden streets of Los Angeles, or New York City, let them shield the lives of the children of North Birmingham whose mothers lay them down to sleep on the floor each night to shelter them from stray bullets. If they want to be human shields, I say let them shield the men and women of honesty and integrity that epitomizes courage and embody the spirit of freedom by wearing the proud uniforms of the United States Military. Those are the people who have earned and deserve shielding! Throughout the course of history, this country has remained free, not because of movie stars and liberal activists, but because of brave men and women who hated war too. However, they lay down their lives so that we all may live in freedom. After all - "What greater love hath no man, that he lay down his life for his friend," or in this case a country. We should give our military honor and acknowledgement and not let their lives be in vain. If you want to see true human shields, walk through Arlington Cemetery. There lie human shields, heroes, and the BRAVE Americans who didn't get on television and talk about being a human shield - they were human shields. I thank God tonight for freedom - - those who bought and paid for it with their lives in the past - - those who will protect it in the present and defend it in the future. America has remained silent too long! God-fearing people have remained silent too long! We must lift our voices united in a humble prayer to God for guidance and the strength and courage to sustain us throughout whatever the future may hold. After the tragic events of Sept. 11th, my then eleven -year-old son said terrorism is a war against them and us and if you're not one of us, then you're one of them. So in closing tonight, let us be of one accord, let us stand proud, and let us be the human shields of prayer, encouragement and support for the President, our troops and their families and our country. May God bless America, the land of the free, the home of the brave and the greatest country on the face of this earth
The Patriot
USA - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 09:38:49 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT... JUST CAME TO SAY HELLO TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS,, I GOT APPP TO FILL OUT WILL SEND BEFORE MAY ,,, I TELL YA I CANT WAIT TO GO TO ATLANTA I JUST HOPE THEY DONT MAKE ME SPELL THE STATE TO LET ME ON PLANE ;-) .. JUNE WILL BE HERE SOON..DO YOU ALL GO TO PIZZIA THING WE BE AT DINNER DANCE I CANT WAIT TO MEET ALL OF YOU..WELL TAKE CARE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY BE SAFE
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET , MD USA - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 07:33:13 (MST)

Just a note to say thank you to everyone who has responded to my query earlier in the week. It has been amazing how a few key strokes brought the 30 year past into focus so quickly. I have heard from a number of people who knew Claud and flew with him. I had a wonderful conversation with Bernie this week on the phone. He filled in some details that were nagging questions for 30 years. Thanks, Bernie, for talking to me and for your generousity. I will continue to check the flight log. Thanks also to Judith. I will have pictures as soon as I can get them. I would also like to post the article in the Washington Post that Greg referred to in his note. It was written by Peter Arnett, who was just a young man at the time- covering the story of the day at An Khe Pass. It is more of a human interest story or essay of sorts rather than hard news. As Greg said, it had no names. But we all knew at the time that it was the 426. The details matched and even mentioned Major Jones being onsite. Thanks agagin to everyone. Diane
Diane (Strother) Moy <df78759@aol.com>
Austin, USA - Saturday, March 15, 2003 at 07:07:22 (MST)

Flight....I've seen a lot of stuff on here that I don't agree with. Everything from cowardly french, (who did help us win the revolutionary war? England??? )to politics.(folks who can't resist bashing anything Clinton, but cry alligator tears when Bush gets raked over the coals!)....There have been a few times when I've deleted this place from my `favorites` list, but....something keeps drawing me back. I always walked a different path, compared to my own flesh and blood brothers, why should this place be any different? Even through all the diversity, there is a common thread here, and I'll keep with it! My experiences may have been different than a lot of other's, and no doubt it's had a different affect on my life than it has on many other's, but, regardless of that, I was in a place once, a place I can recognise in the talks that sometimes take place here. I won't go too far out of my way to visit, try to be like, or try and impress any one of you, that's not my style. I will, however, respect that there is a little bit in common, a small thread, that i can identify with.....except, of course, that effing guyman!!! Kim La Voie....71-72...Fred A....what an April fool's present!!!!! Congrats!!!!
Kim La Voie
USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 18:51:32 (MST)

The huey is tempting...very tempting, Gale. But I thought I'd go do some rock climbing and para-sailing. A road trip to the Pop.....great idea. That's if we can pull Fred Alvis down from the clouds. For those of you who don't know why Fred is hung up on daffodils, or any flower right now, it's because his Austalian beauty has just been granted a Visa---He's picking her up in Chicago on April 1st. Too cool Fred! Susan, we're all waiting to meet you and tell you the truth about ZZ Top(Fred looks like ZZ Top)! Oh, ya, I don't rock climb or para-sail...Katherine told me to say that. Right Katherine?? So I may try the helicopter. I'd like to know what Tom and Claud, and all of you experienced. Bernie and Bruno, have you spoken with Diane yet? Always there-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Daffodil, USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 15:08:31 (MST)

WOW!! Huey rides...can't wait! Gently, ever been up in a Huey?? Debbie says that she will go up if I want her to. Gives me goose bumps to think about it. Everyone get to the VHCMA site and copy the forms and then get them sent in with your money by May 1st !! Thanks Rick, and you are right about the reunions.....I was very nervous and then it seemed like I'd known everybody for years & years. Alvis, how's those daffodils doing, or is that the least of your concerns right now? Is there gonna be a wedding right away or have you decided? Maybe a few of us can meet her at the Pop A Top next month......that road trip is sounding goooood! I'm clear, Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 14:04:53 (MST)

Somebody has way to much time on there hands---I wonder who that could be? I wish I could tell you what I thought of the Observers' postings, but I like so many others ignore them, and I wouldn't dare tell you what I think of him. LOL! Now, on a brighter note...ATLANTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gently
Gently <Jsinger@uwm.edu>
Atlanta bound, USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 13:47:15 (MST)

Ray that is what Gale was saying that this is a place for making friends and brothers and sisters and for healing. It will be great at the reunion. My first one was in Charlotte and walked in and Alex greeted me an made you feel so good and relaxed because I didn't know what to expect. It was great meeting brothers that was and still is that was 129th. This site that Mark started has been a I don't know haw to explain it I guess a revolation. Like you Ray I probably spelled that wrong. It has been a hilly path up to now an I am trying to smooth out those hills alittle at a time. Look forward to seeing you at the reunion be careful out there.
Rick England
USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 13:35:51 (MST)

SEE OBSERVER NO ONE PAYS YOU NO MIND FRIST I WANT TO SAY SORRY FOR USING THIS NAME, BUT UN LIKE HIM I TELL YA WHO I AM MOST COULD PROBLEY TELL BY MY SPELLING I LOVE THIS SIGHT IT HELPED ME SO MUCH AND IAN SO GRATEFUL FOR MARK AND DEE FOR ALL TEY DONE FOR ME ..IAM KNOWN TO ALL AS STILWATING RAY I NOT USE THIS NAME EVER AGAIN WE NEED THE LOVE BACK, FOR WHEN I FRIST CANE I SEEN A LIGHT LIKE TAHT OFA CANDLEL AND AS TIME WENT ON I HAD MET MANY BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO I CARE MUCH FORIAM SORRY IF I OFENED ANY ONE YOU ALL ARE MY BROTHERS BE SAFE A BROTHER TO ALL ALWAYS RAY
THE OBSERVER 2003
USA, USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 11:44:51 (MST)

I quit reading the Observer about 3 weeks ago. When I see his post I just scroll up and don't even pay any attention to it. I think the more attention we give him the longer he will continue to post. I know it takes up room but that is all it does for me. Alvis I am so glad for you. Diane, I knew they would get in touch with you. I would really like for you to send some pictures. It would be great to see some of these guys when they were younger. As always WELCOME AND THANK YOU.
Katharine <fricabeunme@aol.com>
Elizabethtown, KY USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 11:06:21 (MST)

Observer....at least that's what you call yourself. You seem to think (and want us to think) that you are such an intelligent person. I believe ( as I'm sure others on here do) that you no more than copy articles and place them on here for some unkown reason. The fact that you hide behind all these entrys shows just what a coward you must be. Anyone of us could do it if we so desired. In my opinion, you are just a "wannabe reporter" that can't stand behind your information or maybe you are just a "wanna be Vietnam Vet" that wants to be part of a group like this. Everyone on here knows what a sniper is and that's all you are to us. If you are a viet vet...brother you need help and that's what we do on this site......Help Each Other!!! If you were a true "observer" you would observe what we are telling you...stay off here. Go to another site that has others like you....maybe you will fit in better. The 129th family is great bunch of people that rely on each other and we don't want to lose even one due to your ignorant agenda. Think about it...noone reads your crap anymore. Gale 67-68
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 10:27:47 (MST)

To the Observer.may ask,Where do you get yourinformaion from? I dont understand you you to ramble on like you do. you must read a page from a book and copy it.Most of us come here suport and to be with our brothers and sisters.But you unsist on rambling on that means nothing. Many have asked you to leave, What part of that don't you understand. We are all brothers and sistes here who care much for each other alot. Must ask why you continueto be a person who thinks they know all? and it seems to many that you just talk to make a fool of your self. Are youtrying to runin this wonderful sight that mark and worked so hard to make? to all the flightplease don't let one man run anyone away. and to you the observer do you not have corage to say who you realy are and feel u must hide i took this same name to obsever you, and to tell you how your making a fool of your self. So my brothers and sisters don't say awat cause f him come and stay for we are family, and must stick together
The Observer 2003
USA, USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 09:24:24 (MST)

I will have more pins in 8 weeks. Hey observer until you use your name I am going to ignore your messages. I like to know who is giving all this info whether it be good or bad. Flight be caerful out there
Rick England
USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 09:12:51 (MST)

- Observer Post Removed -

Flight: first want to thank David for posting the reunion info on the main page. The will be a may 1st, cut off date. This is going to be the largest reunion for the VHCMA and the 129th. Huey rides will be availble, plus a presentation from the group of the Shadow of the Blade. they contacted us wanting to come to Atlanta. So please print the registration form and try to get it in as soon as possible. Even though you may not be crew, your still part of the 129th and part of the family. the is non-crew memberships, Mark Jackson has been one for years. Thanks Alex Current VHCMA President for 2002-2003 and a 129th Brother.
Alex Fernwalt <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, Tn. USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 08:00:08 (MST)

well, sad to report i just recieved an e- mail from someone in here that is giving up the site because of the observer's insistance on posting his foolishness in here,that few, want to read. Way to go you insenstive .... keep it clean alvis.
ALVIS
USA - Friday, March 14, 2003 at 07:38:04 (MST)

Welcome to this site Diane. I knew your husband and I'm sure I flew with him. I went back to the states in Feb72 and didn't know Claude had passed until learning of it here a few years ago. My heart goes out to you and yours for your loss. When I left Vietnam, I was in the Washington DC area visiting my family and remember seeing a photo in the Washington Post of the aircraft involved. I recognized the bulldog nose art right away, but the newspaper only said it was an american helicopter shot down at Anh Khe during the easter offensive. Hello Bernie and Bruno, good to hear from you again. Aloha, Greg
Animal
Kalapana, HI USA - Thursday, March 13, 2003 at 22:25:40 (MST)

Just a quick note to let all of you know that the registration form and other additional information for the Atlanta reunion has been sent to David for posting on the 129th page. June will be here before we know it so get your registration in and your rooms booked as soon as possible. Alex 129th AHC 65-68
Alex Fernwalt <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
USA - Thursday, March 13, 2003 at 15:19:14 (MST)

To Ms. Diane Strother, welcome home as has been said. Here is a place you may be able to heal a little. I was there 71-72 & yes, I flew with him but the memories are vague, would sure like to see those pictures. I flew with Bernie & have had dinner with him in Ogden since, My close friend, Fred Alvis was there too. My Heart goes out to you in Sympathy almost 35 years late. I am sure That he has been with the Lord all That time & that the Lord has been with you. Stay with us here & surely with Bernie & Bruno who were with him at that terrible time. -- My Utmost Respect to a Gold Star; SP/5 Jim Westwang 129th AHC 71-72
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
sheridan, Wy. USA - Thursday, March 13, 2003 at 14:38:52 (MST)

- Observer Post Removed -

Good Day Flight: First want to welcome Diane to the 129th family. You have found a second home. Bernie and Bruno I know alot of memories flashing through your minds about now. But, we all are here for the 3 of you. This is what this page is all about. Finding each other!!! Bernie it's always good to see you and Bruno post. Hope the family is doing fine. Hope to see you in Atlanta!! Max, my Brother, you also need to make plans for Atlanta been about 37 years. Rainner and me ain't getting any younger!! Even though you were sgt. twiggy. rainner and I lose our slim figures Ha! Ha! Tom good to see you post. Hope everything is going well for you. Hope to see you in Atlanta also. Well my Brothers and Sisters, It's been a slow process but, the 129th is getting bigger. And A Huge Welcome Home To All Of You!! Fred Alvis, are you bringing a Aussie friend to Atlanta??? Hope so!! Alex
Alex Fernwalt <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, TN. USA - Thursday, March 13, 2003 at 12:16:39 (MST)

Ms Strother,welcome to the 129th. It was my first misson with Mr Strother, so I didn't know him that well. I can say this.He had a smooth hand on the cyclic just like Tom. When you have pilots that can "drive" like that it makes the crew chief & gunner at ease "back there". Most of the pilots that Bernie & I flew with had that ability. Most of the time the pilots of 426 were Bill Shilleto & Lt. Jones. Just stick around the 129th web from time to time. You stated that you have a lot of pictures that you'd like to submit. Well when you do the whole flight will be "looking in." They too will want to share the pictures.
Bruno E Sanchez <bsanchez1@stxrr.com>
Laredo, Tx USA - Thursday, March 13, 2003 at 11:32:39 (MST)

Fred I very happy for you and I bet your excited. Good Luck brother. Be careful out there
Rick England
USA - Thursday, March 13, 2003 at 08:46:50 (MST)

Diane, Welcome, This group of guys and girls are great. If there is anyone who knew your husband they will get in touch with you. If you don't hear anything stay in touch we all care and want to make you feel at home. Katharine
Katharine Marsee <fricabeunme@aol.com>
Elizabethtown, KY USA - Wednesday, March 12, 2003 at 15:54:26 (MST)

Tom, thanks buddy.
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Wednesday, March 12, 2003 at 12:25:31 (MST)

http://www.hackworth.com/article03112003z.html ......This comes from COL HackworthÕs web site. Says it better than I could.
Tom Shanahan
USA - Wednesday, March 12, 2003 at 11:05:45 (MST)

Diane!!! Thanks for the email and for joing us. As Bernie said, it's been a long time. And now that you're here, please, feel very welcome. Remember to try and make Atlanta, for it would be an honor for all of us to meet a Gold Star Wife, and our new friend. Always a sister-Gently(Judith)
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Happiville, USA - Wednesday, March 12, 2003 at 10:16:30 (MST)

Diane, hope you recieved my message, please get intouch either by mail, cell phone 801-695-2883, or e-mail. I have tried calling Bruno Sanchez this morning, he lives in Laredo Texas, his phone number is 956-727-4579, I'm sure he would not mind if you contacted him, I understand he has an e-mail address also. Its been a long time comin. Survivors of "426"
Bernie Hernandez <Bernie.Hernandez@HILL.af.mil>
Ogden, ut USA - Wednesday, March 12, 2003 at 07:59:42 (MST)

welcome to the site diane. There are a few of us in here from 71/ 72 era.One of us may have flown with him.personally, i need to se a pic. 30 years have taken there toll.
alvis
USA - Wednesday, March 12, 2003 at 07:17:36 (MST)

Once upon a time in a nice forest, there lived an orphaned bunny and an orphaned snake, both were blind from birth. One day, the bunny was hopping , and the snake was slithering through the forest, when the bunny tripped over the snake and fell down. "Oh, my," said the bunny, "I'm terribly sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you. I've been blind since birth, so, I can't see where I'm going, and I don't know what I am." "It's OK," replied the snake. "I too have been blind since birth. Tell you what, maybe I could slither all over you, and work out what you are." "Oh, that would be wonderful" replied the bunny. So the snake slithered all over the bunny, and said, "Well, you're covered with soft fur; your nose twitches; and you have a soft cottony tail. You must be a bunny rabbit." "Oh, thank you! Thank you," cried the bunny. The bunny suggested to the snake, "Maybe I could feel you with my paw and help you." So the bunny felt the snake all over, and remarked, "Well, you're smooth and slippery, and you have a forked tongue, no backbone and no balls. I'd say you must be French".
alvis
USA - Wednesday, March 12, 2003 at 07:07:04 (MST)

Hello Flight! I just received a new shipment of Unit Emblems. If you want one before the reunion, send $7.00 to me for each patch. I am ready to serve. Diane, we are honored that you stumbled upon us. I am sure that someone will remember Claud Strother and contact you. Perhaps they will be able to put names to some of the faces on the photos. For me, I was out of there in 1968. Wish I could make it to the reunion with all of you. Perhaps next year! Always close by.
Dan Hertlein <dhert10408@aol.com>
Sumner, WA USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 20:54:00 (MST)

WAY TO GO FRED ALVIS!! How are you gonna find anything in that house iffin you pick it all up?? And while your at it ....don't forget all the beer cans piled up by the back door! ;o] I'm sure that your house isn't as bad as you put on. All kiddin aside brother...I'm happy for you and I can't wait to meet her. Animal, I'm sure we all have wanted to do that at some time...good story. Spring is comin to Indiana and the "daffodils" are pushing their way up. Next month is mushroom season when everyone heads to the woods in hopes of finding a huge patch of morels......mmmm, dip them in egg batter and flour, then fry em nice and crispy!! By the way....can anyone in the area make it to the Pop-A-Top in late April or early May? That little 4 hour road trip is starting to sound good when the weather gets warm.......any takers?? I'm clear, Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 20:47:26 (MST)

I only found that 129th homepage today through a coincidence. My husband, Claud Paul Strother, was with the 129th in 71-72. He was killed in April 72 at An Khe pass. I would like to hear from anyone who knew him and might have some memories to pass on....especially to his neices and nephews who never knew him. Also, I have a trunk with many picutres of his time with the 129th. I will try to get them converted so that I can submit them to be added to the gallery. There are many group picutres of people I do not know. Thanks and regards, Diane (Strother) Moy
Diane <df78759@aol.com>
Austin, TX USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 19:30:24 (MST)

ALVIS: Got another bachelor tip for you: when you run out of plates, you can always turn them over and use the other side, before you have to wash them.... (grin)
Max Whittington
USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 19:30:12 (MST)

Whooo Hoooo, get some animal. Way to go buddy.he made his statement, you made yours.Good idea gale, i shall respond to post office also. On a different note. Some of you know I have been fighting immergration for 10 months now, trying to get my lady here from Australia.Finally, she had to fly to Sydney for talk with consulate. Yesssssssss. she arrives in chicago April 4th, where i will pick her up.Thank you all for ur good wishes and crossed fingers. Hmm, now to clean up this pig pen i call home.But its so comfy, with socks everywhere and dirty dishes serving as a navagation becon to kitchen.Follow the sock trail, goes to bathroom, bed room and my easy chair.Yes folks, leads to the remote control.Piles of toels acts as a buffer in case one trips and falls out of tub. safty first i always say.Same goes with piles of jeans next to bed, dont want to roll out and hurt myself. Hmm, now where is that vacum cleaner.
alvis
USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 18:16:16 (MST)

THAT'S the Animal I know! Where else but in America can you (legally) show your true colors?
Dave Powers <powers@montrose.net>
Montrose, Colorado USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 14:55:10 (MST)

Flight, (http://www.usps.com/common/contact_us/community_services.htm) If you care to help out our brother Darwin (Scmitty) Schmeidt (check commo a couple of days ago) with his flag etiquette problem at the Post Office in Yale, SD (57386),this is the site that you want to "copy & paste" in order to do that.Lets give him a hand from the 129th. Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 06:55:20 (MST)

I will check at the VA and see if this is true on the tinitus thing. Flight be careful out there
Rick England
USA - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 at 04:58:25 (MST)

The discussion regarding flag desacration is interesting to me. I remember back in the sixties, Abbie Hoffman, the radical yippie protester was charged with desacration of the flag when he showed up in court wearing a flag shirt. In his defense he whipped out a glossey 8x10 photo of Roy Rogers in the same shirt. Oops, charges dropped. That was over 30 years ago and things are a lot more liberal now. I've seen flag swim suits, underwear, socks, hats, and yes, Harley Davidsons. Sometimes it's hard to tell if someone is being disrespectful or patriotic. The bottom line is that no matter how distasteful it is to desacrate a flag it cannot be illegal in our free society.(It would be illegal in Iraq, N. Korea, China, Cuba, and most other totalitarian states, but not here.) I think I've said it before, but what I like to do is remind protesters is what a great country it is that lets them demonstrate. And that Servicemen and veterans have sacrificed for their right to do so. All that being said, I have to relate a true story that happened to me this last summer. I was at a flea market here in rural Hawaii when this idiot shows up with a large american flag pinned to his T-shirt. Only where the stars were supposed to be he had a large ,no-shit, Swastika attached. I guess he was trying to say that the government was facist. Anyway, I confronted him and pointed out that a facist government wouldn't let him demonstrate like that. He turned his back on me and walked away. He went across the room and stood in front of a tiny Filipino lady who probably wouldn't give him any shit. So keeping in mind everything I've said about our profound freedoms, I just snapped and went over to him and tore the thing right off his shirt. He then went ballistic and jumped on my shoulders trying to get it back. I could have done him some grievous body damage, but chose to just stand there with his flag behind my back where he couldn't grab it. After the crowd pulled him off me the cops came and decided not to press assault charges on me for pulling his swastika off. So I guess the moral of the story is: I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it, and if you're an idiot with a swastika on the flag, I'll snap and tear it off. And oh yes, I went into the VA for counsiling afterwards. With respect, Greg
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Monday, March 10, 2003 at 20:38:38 (MST)

....It would be great if any of you guys could e-mail my very good friend Neely, and give her a hand. Ask her what she really wants to know, or what questions that she would like to be answered. She and her mother, and sibs, are very,very close friends of Dee and mine....PLEASE respond to her.......always a brother........Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Monday, March 10, 2003 at 16:04:18 (MST)

Hello. My name is Neely and I'm an 8th grader doing a research paper on the effects of Vietnam on the people (PTSD). Mark Jackson, a good friend of my mom's, said you guys could help me out. Any information would be appreciated!!!! Thanks!
Neely <neelzynean223@hotmail.com>
USA - Monday, March 10, 2003 at 14:00:14 (MST)

Here is some good info on tinnitis. Good to hear Joe and Dee doing well. Be careful out there. VA Tinnitus Compensation Eligibility: The United States Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims has announced a decision in the case of Wanner v. Principi. At issue was whether service connection or compensation for tinnitus should be allowed only for "head injury, concussion or acoustic trauma." The Court held that persistent tinnitus, no matter how it was acquired during service, entitles a veteran to compensation under the rating schedule. Accordingly, in claims for service connection for tinnitus filed before June 10, 1999, including those now on appeal, claimants will now be entitled to service connection without regard to how the tinnitus was acquired. The court did not decide whether veterans are entitled to separate ratings for service-connected bilateral tinnitus (tinnitus in each ear). [Source: Armed Forces News Issue 28 FEB 2003]
Rick England
USA - Monday, March 10, 2003 at 08:09:16 (MST)

smiles at the image of " the macho room". Good for u max.My nights have also been disturbed, but dont know if its irag. Might be, cant remember. The " other " dreams have long vanished. Best wishes to Dee and Joe, hope u both feeling lots better and speedy recovery to u both.Heard a song on radio today by Dave Clark 5. They were the first concert i ever saw. Was in Columbus georgia,around 66 or 7.
alvis
USA - Monday, March 10, 2003 at 06:54:17 (MST)

ALVIS: I like your idea about any war vet being allowed to kick the butt of anyone desecrating an American flag Ñ maybe that should be included in the proposed new federal law! When was at the D.A.'s Office, I had a very high ceiling, and hung my father's casket flag on the wall right behind my desk. I also had various military posters and pictures up. They used to refer to my office as "The Macho Room." When the President asked us all to fly flags for 30 days after 9/11, I hung it outside my plex unit, protected under a large overhang and illuminated at night. FRED: Don't be too quick to think we're going to stop with Iraq, just because of the oil. Iraq will just let the others know we mean business. I expect we'll see action against Iran, now that it appears that they are enriching uranium for nuclear bombs, and there's no doubt North Korea will be another conflict in the not too distant future. Guys and gals, the world as we know it is never going to be the same. I pray that we come out of all of this a better, safer place, but I'd sure like to see some attention to issues on the U.S. home front, too: gangs, corporate crime, child porno, the economy, etc. ----- Anyone else having lots of nightmares, lately? Mine had slacked off for a few years, but are once again a nightly occurrence. Last night (in my nightmare), a nuke was discovered about to go off at my local post office, and my cats and I sat on the roof, waiting for the end... (Just to make things more interesting, I just bought a mobile home and will be moving, starting the end of next week, when things will be getting hot.)
Max Whittington <Max@OregonPI.com>
USA - Sunday, March 09, 2003 at 18:45:42 (MST)

,,,,,Evenin' Flight..........want to thank you all for making the Flight Log Book a friendly place again. The discussion in here is good and informative stuff. Opinions stated, but nothing aimed at anybody........as I stated befor, I am not a very smart or knowledgable man about much, best thing I know how to do is twist open a bottle of beer and slide it down the bar. You will have to admit that befor, it tuned into a place that where we would try and change ones mind about things that they thought...we did have some flame outs, in here, and BC....Please keep this a friendly place as it is now......."ALL" , and I mean "ALL" are welcome here, sept that GUY MAN fag and that other Mugo guy that comes in here....is her telling us to stay off????...duh!!!!!!!!!.....Gently, good news about Joe. Glad to hear it.....Katherine.....so nice to hear from......and prayers.......Melodey....glad to see you hear agian.....Kristins Cooper, THANKS for the update on the "431" and do please keep us updated on it......Dee is doing lots better. Getting HBP meds changed. Flipped her out fer a spell!!!!!!!!....always a brother, Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Sunday, March 09, 2003 at 17:57:52 (MST)

ANIMAL: No oil in N. Korea might figure into things! Have you wondered about how confusing it is to many Americans that,(I'm borrowing this line from an Op-Ed piece from the NY Times) in a world full of vicious slimeballs, we're about to bomb one that didn't attack us on 9/11 (like Osama); that isn't intercepting our planes (like North Korea); that isn't financing Al Qaeda (like Saudi Arabia); that isn't home to Osama and his lieutenants (like Pakistan); that isn't a host body for terrorists (like Iran, Lebanon and Syria)???MAX: While I'd identify myself as a dove in the old nomenclature, we find ourselves aligned in questioning the validity of the administration's evidence for war. Whether we are Left or Right, Democrat or Republican, Dweeb or Non-dweeb (as Animal might state it) we are all American citizens. Given an open dialog we can find common ground. GALE: While watching news coverage of protests, I thought of your question of how could you "show" support for our troops, and not simultaneously support the administration's march to war. The news report showed protesters opposing the need for war and another demonstration of folks waving flags that supported our troops AND the administration. The implication of both the demonstrators and the coverage was disturbing...it served to drive a wedge between Americans by equating Protesting the need for war to NOT supporting troops. And that supporting troops equated to support for the administration's move to war. From our own little microcosm here at this site, we know those parralles cannot be drawn. You indicated your reluctance to openly oppose the need for war because of the protesters of the 60's and 70's. Just want to point out that the majority of that era's protesters were not venomous toward veterans. In fact, a large part of the movement was made up of Vietnam Veteran's against the war. Not to overlook some distasteful things done by some, as in any group, one paintbrush doesn't paint everyone. A Vietnam Veteran today, stepping forward to be counted among those opposed to the need for war, speaks volumes...while at the same time goes without saying he, "Supports the Troops". Pretty powerful stuff! Just something to think about.
Fred Brown <FJBuffalo@Yahoo.com>
USA - Sunday, March 09, 2003 at 17:50:56 (MST)

Hey Gang: Haven't posted here for quite some time. I do read the log every day. Some very interesting comments. I do support our troops 100%. We all know how important that is. I have in the last day or two come to also support their mission. Sometimes one must repair the hole in the dam before the whole thing breaks loose. I see some comments about our Flag. I work for the postal service and am very upset with the cavilier attitudes of some of the postmasters when it comes to displaying our Flag. Someone told several of them that if there is light in the area and you can see the Flag that they don't have to take it down at night. The poles and apparatus are in poor repair and rather than fix them they choose to leave the Flag out all the time. Basically, they are just plain lazy. The flag code does allow the Flag to be flown at night if properly illuminated and for a patriotic effect. The American Legion preferrs a separate light directed on the Flag. Unfortunately the VFW doesn't have anything on this subject. I have always thought that a separate light was needed. I explained to the postmaster that I strongly connect the Flag with those who have served, those serving, and especially those that have died in the service of this country, and that the Flag should be shown every bit of honor it deserves rather than finding a loophole and doing the easy thing. A storm went thru and ripped the Flag and she left it hang in a tattered and unserviceable state until I couldn't stand it anymore and asked her to take it down. Yea, I suppose I should. A real patriotic reply. Anyway I'm pissed. Am going to send a complaint thru channels. If any of you feel as I do go to usps.com and hit contact us and register a complaint as I did. I would really appreciate it. I do feel strongly that disrespect of the Flag is disrespect to all veterans, present and future. Doesn't look like Atlanta is in the picture. Some unexpected expenses-son's wedding and some auto expenses. It is abit far. Need to have that reunion up here in the Black Hills of South Dakota so we north people don't have to go so far. Cups-are you still alive? Haven't seen anything from you lately. Think of you often. Hang in there everybody. We will get thru this. To those of you who have close ones in the military, we will all say a prayer for their safe return. Take Care Flame
Darwin Schmiedt--Flame <schmitty@santel.net>
WOONSOCKET, SD USA - Sunday, March 09, 2003 at 17:50:38 (MST)

well, I havent been in here for several days now.Lots of very good como in here from everyone. Lots to think about.I also see some comments are aimed at others and have barbs. get over it. I see every one is still beating up on bush. Smile, I dont have alot of respect fpr him either.I felt like poking him in the eye when he was mouthing crap about how grateful he/we are to veterans.rrrrright, till they get home.My son left sunday for the gulf. he is aboard the nimetz.I am going to piss a few of in here by saying I DO support the war.For my own reasons, not bushes. Gale, i know you and respect ur judgement and opinions. The same with the rest of you. Shrug, I stand where i stand. Kill that son of a bitch and ben laudin too.Seems i am the only one in here to think that way. That gives me pause to think that perhaps I am worng. Naaa, thats how i feel. Kill them all and let god sort them out.Also . there is some little girl in college somewhere that wont look at the us flag during pregame. Waht a dumb ass. george bush isnt the flag. the flag doesnt stand for george bush. It stands for america. they should kick her off the team , acting like a jane fonda wanna be. Its the flag for gods sake. speaking of the flag...they shouldnt make a contutional ammendmet about burning the flag.What they should do is make a law that allows a combat veteran to kick someones ass that defaces the flag and cant get arrested.Speaking of getting arrested.... you get popped for a pound of pot..u go to jail, lose right to vote, carry arms, hold office.ect. Those assholes in iraq that are acting like a human shield should lose their rights here.Protest here, not there ,like hanio jane did. Yes, i am a hawk.I truely wish we could do something other than go to war, but buddy, were going.I too feel like the politicans are again stroking our bellies and telling us crap. I also never flew a prisoner out of any "rok"anything. I did however, see 3 prisoners they had captured.2 men and a woman. I cant say for sure, but it looked to me as if every bone in there bodies had been broken.They were dead when i saw them.from what i understand,they lasted almost all night. Snoppys lows/highs. we never popped smoke. The gun ships saw us go hot,swooped in hot. Could be wrong, as i never flew high ship, was always at tree top level. to boring back there at high. Katherine, gently, welcome back.My prayers to joe, gently, hopes he makes a speedy recovery. jim Westwang, Smile, and u were the hothead over there. Peace be with u my brother.
alvis
USA - Saturday, March 08, 2003 at 19:49:32 (MST)

Fred: You've voiced one of my main irritations: why can't our administration provide some verifiable facts to us? With all the billions the CIA has to spend, you'd think we'd get more than a few inconclusive satellite pictures Ñ those building could be WalMart stores, for all I can see. I saw the Janeane Garofalo/Bill O'Reilly interview tonight, for the first time. She said that if our troops do find WMDs, and the Iraqi people welcomed us as liberators, she'll be the first to bring a bouquet of roses to the President and admit she was wrong. I hope that a month or so from now we'll all feel that way.
Max Whittington
USA - Saturday, March 08, 2003 at 05:36:59 (MST)

I'm glad to see a postive response to discussing issues here. With that in mind , I'd like to share my thoughts on Supporting the troops, yet not the cause. This appears to be a delimma that more than a few of us are facing. I'm not aware of anyone (Since Vietnam) that has made a stand against our folks in uniform. Protesters are not screaming "Baby Killer" and the like. This dilemma seems to be shared by all that question the cause. Although we may be generally turned off by politics and politicians, our political process is the system we've got. Our politicians are the ones we elected, or permitted to acsend to their position. That they hold the office doesn't make them infallable...and certainly does not put them above being questioned by us, they're constituency. To support the administration "because they must know more than we do" doesn't set well with me. Seems I heard that alot during Vietnam. Until then in our history citizens couldn't imagine our government leading us down a primrose path...couldn't imagine our government would actually lie to us. Since we know now that they did lie to the nation we can't be blinded to that posibility now. Veterans of all people of our nation should be vigilent that hidden agendas are not paid for with the blood and bodies of our young... I pose that we can support our troops by excercising our freedoms as citizens and contact those office holders and let them know how we feel. Politicians do respond to pressure from "voterville". Call them. E-mail them. Wrtie them. Encourage your family and friends that feel likewise to do the same. If Iraq is truly such a threat to the US why doesn't Bush and the Boys just lay out the cold facts to us. Do they think we are so willy-nilly we can't handle the truth? I believe handleing the truth, the raw truth, is what we as a country do best. Given a grave situation we collectively rise up to face it. Mr. Bush hasn't told us the truth .
Fred Brown <FJBuffalo@Yahoo.com>
USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 22:19:48 (MST)

Gale, Hey bro, I didn't think anything of the sort. all of us here know the feeling of not being supported by the masses. it was just one of those things back then. we did what we were told to do by our government and most of us came home. and a lot of us that came home were messed up one way or another, the sad part is that some of us are just now finding out that we have a problem that is just now surfacing. but in here we are finding that we are not alone. we are helping each other just by being here and listening to each other. that really helps. all I'm saying is we need to do what our peers (so to speak) didn't do. they blamed US for what was going on in Nam instead of saying something like " OK this war is stupid but you did what was asked of you and you did it as well as you could ....... welcome home ". I just want my nephew (AF)and a lot of my son's friends (navy) to know that no matter what I think of the war (or what ever they are going to call this one) I am proud of them and the job they did while there. I don't want them to have to wait 30 years to have someone make a web site for their unit so they can get together and help each other out. I want them to know the support for them and the help they need is here NOW. ok maybe the help isn't out there yet but with luck we can get the VA etc. working like it should. I am sure that is how you feel too. I guess I have rambled enough for tonight. take care all. Later, Don
Don Miller
USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 21:30:14 (MST)

Flight: Well I see alot of you must have watch Boy George's speech. I had to work, but, seen highlites on the news. We all are unanimous, the we are standing with our troops 100%. Politics!! Brothers!! Thats whats it's all about. I recall an interview that George had. He stated that this is personal to him. Because The tried to get his Daddy!! But, there is always two sides to everything. Personally I don't give a good crap about, politics. The WALL in DC is why. A policitican once told me. to be a good politican you must be a good liar. And, I have seen alot of those. My thoughts and prayers are with the Soldiers and their famlies out the to proctect our country. And, they will get 100% backing from. Yea!! we all know how it feels not, to have the support. MAX: Have good contact with Rich Swabidessin, he few with Cline for while in 67, I think. Going to try and call him later tonight. Alex
Alex Fernwalt <afernwal@midsouth.com>
Memphis, Tn. USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 16:19:56 (MST)

I see a lot of my own mixed feelings expressed here. While I'm hawkish (have you noticed that no one on the news has been using the old "hawk" and "dove" terms, this time?), I also have a great distrust of our government backing the troops. Politics was our downfall in Vietnam, and what have we seen the last few months but more and more of the same? How many soldiers will die or be maimed because of politics, this time? Sometimes I want to reach through the t.v. screen and grab Bush/Powell/Whoever by the throat and shake him and yell, "LESS TALK, MORE ACTION, DAMMIT!" A lot of my attitude comes from thirty years of working in the criminal justice field, both in law enforcement and since going private: I'm so sick of seeing bullies and criminals get away with hurting the weak or defenceless, while a liberal justice system tries to excuse the perps' actions, or use *reasoning* with them. Some people will only amend their negative behaviors when confronted with one thing: force. But, again, I have very mixed feelings about the upcoming war, which sometimes seem to almost be driving me crazy.
Max Whittington
USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 12:47:50 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT... HI GALE NO I DONT THINK ITSYOU THAT NEEDS THEPHY AT ALL .WEHEN WE FOUGHT THE GOVEMNT SAID THEY WILL BE THERE FOR US BUN NEVER WERE ,,I JUST HOPE THEY HELP THE TROOPS AFTER ALL IS DONE WITH.. TAKE CARE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS LOVE YOU ALL..RAY
RAY GGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET , MD USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 09:39:40 (MST)

Haven't checked in here for a long time. 'Puter broke and is still not working right. Have to use YAHOO to communicate. Outlook Express won't work and I'm no whiz with these things. Rick drop me a line if this goes thru. It may not.. Stacy 129th '70-'71
Stacy McLain <smclain4@yahoo.com>
Flagstaff, AZ USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 08:57:57 (MST)

Don, I didn't mean to sound like I don't support our troops because I do. I know where you are coming from , believe me. I also had a bad experience when I got home from Nam......I thought people on the bus were talking & snickering about me,so, I stopped the bus early, got off and walked through the alleys of my home town to get home. My question is: how can I " show " support without being supportive of our government? This is the same government (only the names have changed) that told me "if we don't fight the commies in Nam...we'll be fighting them in our back yards". Well, we're in our back yards anyway ,so, why believe them now? Maybe I need therapy !? Clear, Gale 67-68
Gale
USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 08:35:22 (MST)

Gale, I too am having trouble supporting the "cause" but I have no problem supporting the guys and gals that are doing their jobs. I remember the night I spent in LAX after I came home from Nam. about the only person that would even talk to me that night was another GI I met there. in our conversation we found out that we were both from Lane. he was in the chinook unit across the hill from us. and that we were in grade school together in Tucson. (small world). but because of that night, I have made a promise to my self that the GI gets my support even if the cause doesn't. I don't want them to get the same "welcome home" I got 33 years ago. Later, Don
Don Miller
USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 08:09:11 (MST)

Fred & Max, I personally agree to discussions such as this. If we can keep on the level of courtesy that you two have started......that's fine, but, when it gets to name calling & personal attacks on each other.....it's no longer productive. Fred, I totally agree with your last entry. Don, as a Vietnam vet, I'm really having problems. I desperately want to support our troops ,but, how can I do that and not support the administration. I'm against the war as it stands now and I fear for our innocent young people, yet, I would never protest in public due to the protesters of the 60's. It bothers the hell outta me to be referred to as "unpatriotic", so, I remain silent. I'm clear, Gale 67-68
Gale
USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 06:00:36 (MST)

By the way, my email address is in the contacts section(Greg Henkel). I haven't been including it in the log because of Guyman. By way of introduction, I was Bulldog 13, a WO in the 1st Plt. from jul/71- Feb/72. Would you add that Mark?
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 00:47:33 (MST)

Max and Fred, Count me in. Let's openly exchange ideas. First I'll offer the opinion that Bush is a dweeb. Now before a lot of you get real pissed at me, I think the same of Gore ,Clinton, and anyone else who is a "professional" politition. In my opinion, a person cannot turn "Pro" without being in someone's pocket. I would support strict term and funding limits. For those reasons I voted for Nader (undweeb). Anyway, with that opinion out of the way, I just read a Reuters report that Sec/state Rumsfeld is considering withdrawing US troops from the DMZ area in Korea(fact). Aside from Kimchee breath, the south Koreans have watched over us in the past, and I would hate to think we're going to bale on them. The crazy N. Korean dweeb is even more scary than Saddam and is rattling nukes at us. Could it be that South Korea has no Oil? Sing Loi. Greg
Animal
Puna , HI USA - Friday, March 07, 2003 at 00:39:14 (MST)

MAX: I concer with your premise that this war is of such importance, all points of veiw should be discussed. Your base line of agreeing to disagree is well taken. I hope that we and anyone else will continue this dialog. I would like to raise the bar a bit and suggest we denote opinion vs. information. The latter's sources being sited for all to reveiw. I think this could be beneficial for all concerned. If some folks don't like the idea, they can of course, not read it.What do you think?
Fred Brown <FJBuffalo@Yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 06, 2003 at 22:19:19 (MST)

Flight, I don't usually do things like this but I thought I would pass this along. I hope it works. Subj: Military Appreciation Month Date: 3/6/03 10:34:31 AM US Mountain Standard Time Whatever you may think of our involvement in Iraq, thought you might like to participate... If you are so inclined, visit the Department of Defense web page below and add your name to the list of folks thanking the men and women of the U.S. military services for defending our freedom. The compiled list of names will be sent out to our soldiers at the end of the month. As of this email, there were almost 3.9 million names (a little over 1 % of all Americans). What a shame. There should be a whole lot more. It's National Military Appreciation Month, so please pass it on to your email friends. http://www.defendamerica.mil/nmam.html It takes only one minute of your time...literally! And thanks for sending it on to all your online buddies.
Don Miller
USA - Thursday, March 06, 2003 at 20:43:01 (MST)

FRED, et al: The coming war is so important to us all that I personally don't think that discussion about it should be, or is, banned from this group. There's no need for it to get personal; we combat vets especially have paid our dues to be able to express what we think, and I think most of us can "agree to disagree." (If the webmaster says otherwise, I'll certainly abide by his decision.) My hawkish take on it (expressed before): if you have poisonous snakes in your backyard threatening your family and friends, you don't wait for someone to get bitten, then round up all the snakes and do DNA tests to determine which one to punish, and release the rest. Prior to WWII, over five million Americans belonged to various organizations that vehemently opposed any action whatsoever that would involve the U.S. in "European affairs...", and we now know what a mistake that was. Much of the current anti-war feeling seems to be predicated on the stand that various foreign countries are taking. Let me pose the following possibilities to you: France, Germany, and Russia have been illegally selling WMD technology and proscribed equipment to Iraq. Saddam is blackmailing them into their present stances by threatening to reveal the transactions, or they are afraid the truth will come out if we invade. North Korea has sold nuclear bombs and/or radioactive material to Iraq, and is raising such hell for much the same reason, OR Saddam is paying that impoverished country to do so. Another proposition: a few tablespoons of anthrax spoors in four letters was enough to shut down numerous mail facilities and government buildings, as well as kill and disable American citizens. We know (?) Saddam has *TONS* of anthrax. Suppose he slips a few pounds of it into the U.S. via unsearchable diplomatic pouches, and his diplomatic staff here mail a few hundred letters from all over the country, or turn it over to terrorists who could do so? My overall feeling is that we (the public) know very little about what's going on, but the time to get tough is now; and that we need to accept that our elected leaders are doing their best on information to which we are not privy, and we should support their decisions.
Max Whittington <Max@OregonPI.com>
USA - Thursday, March 06, 2003 at 19:19:52 (MST)

Recently there has been alot said on this site about what is posted here. When some folks have an opposing point of veiw, others encourage the rest of us not to read their postings. Some have said they don't intend to use this site because some of us have posted information and thoughts that don't align with that person's political column. Others present a paridoxical train of thought in that they claim to have fought to preserve the freedoms this country offers, yet they call to restrain free speech. It leaves me confused as to what can and cannot be written here. I pretty much concluded to skip using the site. But then the topic of "supporting the troops" in light of a war that is in search of it's support came up. I thought alot about how to say how I felt about that..then I read this posting from a veteran on the VETERANSFORCOMMONSENSE.org site. He put it as clearly as though he read my mind...so I'm bringing it to you.Nam Era Vet Posted 3/5/2003 1:39:54 AM Loyalty and Support Why do so many vets feel that if someone disagrees with this idea of the Iraq war, that they are disloyal Americans or do not support our troops? I think those of us vets that disagree with this war should be offended by anyone that purports that idea. I for one support all of our troops from the newest recruit to the highest general. By the way, many generals have voiced reservations about this war also. Are they considered disloyal? The problem is with the administration and the Commander-in-Chief that play the military as if it is a computer game. The administration is short on real military experience and long on instant gratification. An experienced Commander-in-Chief would know what every recruit is taught. You have to stick together if you are going to make it. Are we sticking together? Yes, we have coalition of 18 insignificant countries (except Britain), but we have 150 other countries that are against us. Yet the quick score is upper most in this administrations mind. Could it be timing for the next presidential run? The ÒimminentÓ in imminent threat is not really there. Even the administration admits that Iraq does not have a nuclear device or a delivery system for that device (unlike North Korea that has both and Bush insists that he can negotiate with them). A good leader would review the situation and play for time to move as many of those 150 countries that are not with us to the support column. A good leader would see that Homeland security was in place and ready to operate effectively (not just a title with no organization and no network of funding to the states). A good leader would have a solid plan for us to leave Iraq after a war and leave the recovery operations to a known entity. What we will be doing for many years after the war will be keeping all the factions in that country under control and beating down one revolution after another. In other words, a good leader would have a pre-existing exit strategy for the troops that he is responsible for. Is it too much to ask that the commander-in-chief display a little bit of loyalty and respect to the troops that he is leading into war instead of viewing them as blips on a screen to be moved about to score as many points as possible in as short a period of time as possible? The vets that accuse us of not respecting our troops because we disagree should be demanding proper respect and loyalty to our troops from the Commander-in-Chief.
Fred Brown <FJBuffalo@Yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, March 06, 2003 at 17:54:33 (MST)

I would just like everyone to know that my husband and a few of his friends have purchased 67-17431 "Iron Butterfly". Rick England has been a big help on this project and we would like to thank him. If anyone out there has anyother pictures of the "Iron Butterfly please send them to my e-mail address. We would like to get the aircraft back to its original look it had in Vietnam. If there are any questions or anyone has any good history on this ship please send that as well. I will post on this web page when the aircraft is up and flying and we invite anyone who was a member of the crew or family to come and see it when it is finished. Well wish us luck and hope to see some of you in the future. Thank you, Kristen Cooper Tropical Helicopter 352-258-6452 (Monte Cooper)
Kristen Cooper <Kristen@tropicalhelicopter.com>
Leesburg, FL USA - Thursday, March 06, 2003 at 09:00:31 (MST)

Harrell It will be good to see you again. There goes the golf tournament Harrell will win. We better start practicing. Harrell won in Charlotte. Be careful out there
Rick England
USA - Thursday, March 06, 2003 at 08:51:43 (MST)

Harrell, If we haven't met yet......see you in LZ Atlanta! Gale
Gale
USA - Thursday, March 06, 2003 at 07:59:20 (MST)

Hey guys. I just made reservations for VHCMA reunion in Atlanta. Look forward to seeing all that I know from past reunions. I was with the 191st in 67-68.
Harrell Guidry (AKA Cue)
Groves, Tx USA - Thursday, March 06, 2003 at 07:01:35 (MST)

Thanks for all the support and prayers for my brother and family. I knew I could count on you. My brother will be leaving tomorrow. Not sure when he will be back. He has open ended orders. I do know he will be west of Iraq but that is all. I did get to talk to him not visit but the talk was good. I at least got to tell him that I love him. Gently, my husband and I will be in Kokomo but not Atlanta. Just can't take the time off. My heart will be there though. Everyone take care. Always a sister. Katharine
Katharine <fricabeunme@aol.com>
Elizabethtown, KY USA - Wednesday, March 05, 2003 at 20:42:38 (MST)

Katherine, great to hear from you. Please know that we all support our troops and will keep them in our prayers. I've got 8 young men here, at the School of Architecture and Urban Planning, in Milwaukee, who have been called up and we are setting up the steps to send them packages on a regular basis. They are, like our Viet Nam Veterans were, only boys, and its as heart breaking to look into their young eyes, as it is to look into some of the "old" eyes. Any plans on Kokomo or Atlanta? We'd love to see you at both. It is now time to remember our fallen friends and brothers who had birthdays in March. Please pause for a moment at each name and say it out loud: Jeffrey Stowe 3/11/49--Richard Sawran 3/10/48--Thomas Shaw 3/28/48--Davis Stamper 3/28/51. It is difficult for me to list the names of our friends and brothers every month-as I'm sure its difficult for you to see them and be reminded. But I do it to be reminded, that way we will never forget them, our friends and brothers. Always there for our Veterans-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Milwaukee, WI USA - Wednesday, March 05, 2003 at 13:48:13 (MST)

Animal, whoooooeee! Kimchee! Talk about toxic substances! I remember 2 monkeys we had in the company area. We called them 'Momma' and 'Peewee'. I saw Dudley the dog get attacked and ridden by Peewee one day while Peewee was chained to the clothesline and poor old Dudley happened by. Pretty darned funny! Memory's fuzzy... was the zoo you mentioned the one over at Ba Gi?
Dave Powers <powers@montrose.net>
Montrose, Colorado USA - Wednesday, March 05, 2003 at 13:32:16 (MST)

Good Morning all. Katherine, it's nice to hear from you again, and please know our prayers are with you and your family. I write to let you know what our little community is doing to support the local families of the troops. The American Legion is hosting a non-denominational service on Sunday, the 23rd. It's called a "Care and Prayer" service, and three of the local clergy, along with the Chaplains from the Post and Auxiliary will offer short prayers. Patriotic music will be offered between the different prayers, and all the names and addresses we can gather of the military personnel will be offered to those in attendance. It was started by a lady who has two sons in the middle of it all. She wanted her sons to know how our little community supports them and what they're expected to do. I'm honored to be a part of this and will keep you posted as to the outcome. As with all military action, it's touchy territory and we're aware of some possible problems. Our purpose is not to support war, it's to support those men and women from our community just doing their jobs. God Bless You All. Jamie DeBates
Jamie DeBates <rebate@cablemt.net>
Big Timber, MT USA - Wednesday, March 05, 2003 at 06:06:33 (MST)

Dave, I remember the ROK RTO's. Especially after they'd eat their C-rat Kimchee(pickled cabbage) for lunch. They had to get right in your face to talk over the noise, and that's what I thought the gas masks were for. Whew! Flying with Rebel was never dull. He was a great pilot and flight lead, but I had to get his scotch for him at the PX cause they punched all the liquer holes in his ration card. I was an "old" 21 at the time. Do you remember the little monkey at the zoo the ROKs had? -break-break: Katherine, I hope your Brother has a safe and swift deployment, and returns soon.
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 23:25:41 (MST)

I just thought that some of you might want to read this. I have a cousin that is in Kabul right now. My aunt was disturbed to read this. Thought you would like to know what its like there. I don't think it is said enough to people who served or is serving this nation. THANK YOU!!!!! This place is a sewer. You wouldn't want to go anywhere. I have no > spare time and for relaxation I fight with my commander who has made it > clear that he is a little Hitler. My staff hates him and he thinks he > is loved by all. I try to keep a level of respect, but they are > starting to see it wear on me. I have the shits and because of all of > the feces in the air (porta pots, fields fertillized with human waste, > the barracks that we live in are bombed out buildings that they huddled > in and crapped all over the placed) I now have an infection like a cold > in my chest. Half of my BN is sick in the same manner and I have to > keep them up and running. It was somewhat cleaned up, but never > scrubbed with water. I now have torn the intercostal muscles in my > left ribs, and today the doctor told me that my blood preasure was a > bit high. I now have to be monitored for the next two weeks. I think > that the medic took the reading wrong because I was fine this evening. > Sorry to be so negitive, but we are starting to see more action on some > of my guys that are out away from us. We have had a couple of rocket > attacks, but they can't aim for anything. Afghanistan people are nice, > but you can't trust anyone because the people we hire to work in our > camp are probably 20% on the other side. They violate their religion > openly, yet have the audacity to be fanatics. A lot of the men > practice homosexuality openly as far as the act. This violates the > Koran, but they are so "religious". One of the reasons given by the > interpretor that has been assigned to me is that they have to pay a > dowry for a wife of about $5000. This takes them until they are about > 30 to gather up. Well, with all of the raging hormones from the age of > twelve they turn to each other. Then I guess that they start > preferring it, because sex with a woman outside of marriage is a > violation of the Koran. Think I would choose to run away with a girl > and forget the Koran. > > The food is OK, the bed is dry, (no bedwetting) and bullets aren't > flying. Can't complain.
Melody Pershall <melody1181@yahoo.com>
Amarillo, TX USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 21:52:03 (MST)

The business about the ROK executing people asleep on duty are true. Periodically I was Tiger 33. I spent time in the ROK TOC dispatching our birds around to the ROK positions. One night I went out with my counterpart, a Capt. Lee. We climbed a watchtower in the ROK compound and founf the guy asleep. Before I could blink an eye, Lee pulled out his 45 and was gonna put one between the guys eyes. I flipped out and grabbed his pistol and started yelling at him not to do it. We fought a little bit over the gun but he finally relaxed and put it away. By this time, the guard is awake and he KNOWS what has almost happened to him. His eyes were bigs as plates. Lee then takes 2 frag grenades and hands them to the guy and then pulled the pins. He told him he's be back in the morning to put the pins back in and he better have those 2 grenades or he's shoot him for sure. Then we left. What a weird night that was.
Larry Kwiatkowski <chrger66@aol.com>
Simi Valey, Ca USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 21:47:51 (MST)

Sister Katharina thank your for your sentiment & support of our troops, an for your comment about Michael Shanley. He was a good friend of mine, We soldiered together from Sept. 68 until he was missing. We were with the 238th Aerial Wpns. Co. when it formed at Ft Riely, Kns. Trained during the winter & shipped to Vietnam in Mar. 69. He moved down to the 129th before I did, I joined it in Sep 69. You refer to him as MIA, I don't know. I know WO Dunlops family did not believe the story the Government told them about what happened to them. Anyway good luck to your Brother, take care, for now I'm CLEAR!!! Frank
Frank Loveday <bluecobra@dav.net.>
Bastrop, La. USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 20:57:46 (MST)

Katherine...my thoughts go out to your brother, along with his family....it's not easy, being supportive of someone who's doing something you don't approve of. however, we elect folks to exercise their best judgment on what's in the best interests of our country...In my opinion, it's up to us to make sure the politicians leave the fighting up to the military...give the soldiers and sailors an objective, the means to accomplish it, and an exit strategy when it's over. Keep the press from reporting from the front lines, while letting them visit there......Animal had an interesting issue regarding free speech, every time an American burns a flag in protest, climbs on a soapbox and denounces our government or it's policies, we should stop and think about what a wonderful country we live in......those activities can get someone killed in a lot of other countries by their governments' police forces.....we should be thankful, even while we are put off, angered,shocked......one way we support free speech is by not calling on the government to put a stop to the protests...there are enough demogog's who will use any excuse to help us deprive ourselves of our liberty, in the name of protecting us!!!!!!!
Kim
USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 20:27:15 (MST)

Well, guys the activities of the world have just hit home. My brother is in the Kentucky Air National Guard and they have been deployed. Don't know where. He will be gone by this weekend. He has been told it will be hot and hotter. He is busy trying to get all his paperwork and life in order. He has been told it could be for as short a period as 45 days or as long as 2 years. I hope to get a visit in with him before he goes. We live close. We are a very close family and have just had a great Christmas and New Year. It will be very hard on him because we are so close. They also told him not to expect any of the frills (very little water, baths every couple of weeks and maybe laundry once a month. I guess my days at walmart shopping for baby wipes, deoderant, and anything else I can ship him will become more frequent. I do not fully support a war. I do know that I have been reading all the commo on this site daily and a lot of it disturbs me. I know we all don't think alike and we don't have to but we must stick together as brothers and sisters. I think of all of you as my brothers and sisters even though I was never a part of the 129th. Michael Shanley was and is still is (MIA) and I hope to be taking his place on this site. I will never take his bracelet off or forget him. That is what we all must do. SUPPORT EACH OTHER. Even though I do not support a war I will support with all my heart and soul the men and the women who are fighting. That is what should have been done with VIETNAM and that is what we must do now. It is not the soldiers starting this but you know it is their job to finish it and we must be there for them. I WILL SUPPORT I WILL NOT FORGET I WILL DEFEND I WILL BE HERE FOR THEM. I am sorry I did not mean to preach but I felt a need to vent and I knew this is the place I could do it and feel comfortable doing it. Please keep my brother and all the rest in your thoughts and especially in your prayers. Always a sister Katharine
Katharine <fricabeunme@aol.com>
Elizabethtown, KY USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 16:22:35 (MST)

There are a lot of folks who can't understand how we came to have an oil shortage here in the US of A. Well there's a very simple answer......nobody bothered to check the oil. We just didn't know were getting low. The reason for that is purely geographical. All the oil is in Oklahoma, Texas, Alaska, Wyoming, etc and all of the "dipsticks" are in Washington, D.C.
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 08:45:26 (MST)

Animal, Smitty... I too remember hearing stories of executed ROK's. They made me shudder! The ones I heard of were the one of the ROK in the PX getting caught stealing, and the guy caught sleeping on guard duty. I, too was thankful they were our outer perimeter. I think the 129th got the better part of the deal by supporting the ROK's instead of the ARVN's. Animal, do you remember flying a ROK RTO around with Rebel? The one I remember, we called "Jon".
Dave Powers <powers@montrose.net>
Montrose, Colorado USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 07:26:53 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT...AND TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS HOPE ALL IS WELL FOR YOU..ANIMAL MY VA CONSLER THINKS IAM NOT READY TO GO TO A GROUP YET... SAYS THAT IAM SO STRESSED ,SAID CANT GIVE ME A A CRAZY TEST I CANT SPELL WHAT ITS CALLES SOMETHING LIKE CYOLIGICAL TEST I LOSST MY SHORT TERM MEMOOY AND WAS TOLD LAST WEEK I SEEMED TO HAVE LOST MORE..I DO STRESS EASY AND WORRIE A LOT .. RICH ENGLAND SAID I NEED A GOOD VET CENTER I GET THERE SOON MY CONSLER TOLD ME NOT TO WACH THE NEWS ,OR WAR MOVIES I NEVER DID THOUGHT.WELL ARE YOU GOING TO ATLANA.THANKS FOR GETTING BACK TO ME AGAIN THE ROCK ARMY WAS RUTHLESS I RECALL SEEING SOME OF THERE CAMPS WITH DEAD VC MNINNING PARTS,, WELL ENOUGH ON THAT ..I WISH YOU ALL WELL .I ENJOY COMMING HERE..CANT WAIT FOR JUNE TO MEET YOU ALL,..A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 06:36:28 (MST)

Animal, I must have been crewing with you the day of the ROK execution because I have had recurring dreams about the ROK'S doing it to one of their own ever since. I have told people about this (some people) just to give them an idea how bad these guys were. Seems ruthless but thank God for the ROK Tiger Div. I think we would have gotten hit a LOT more if the VC/NVA were not so worried about them. Seems to me, I remember we had a large CA inserting a lot of Koreans & at the end, when we extracted them, they called for a Chinook & people wondered why but is was for captured weapons & amazingly, no prisoners. Does anyone remember something like that? Later, Smitty
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
Sheridan, WY USA - Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 04:49:21 (MST)

Hello everyone! Its been along time since I posted on here. I am just wondering if there is anbody here thats fairly new that could remember my uncle. His anem is Olen Wayne Garrett. If anybody remembers the name I have pictures if you'd like to see them. Thank ya'll! Mel
Melody Pershall <melody1181@yahoo.com>
Amarillo, TX USA - Monday, March 03, 2003 at 21:48:58 (MST)

Ray, Please don't let these stories freak you out too much. Most of them have been forgotten or locked up deep inside our brains. As I hear them from others, it's like they are being unlocked and let loose. If you get into a group with your local Vet Center, I think you might find it helpfull to recall and let loose some of your own inner demons. Any war has it's share of Horror. I've been reading a lot about the Civil war recently. The father and son writters named Shaara have documented that period excelently and I recomend their books to anyone interested in that era or warfare in general. What won that war for the north was the cruel but effective way Grant fed his troops into the meat grinder. His only strategy was knowing there were many more Union replacements than Confedarate. What bothered me personally about Vietnam was how I became insensitive to human suffering, something I'm working on even today. Max, Yes we worked almost exclusively with the Tiger Division in 1971. There weren't many U.S. ground troops then, and our neighbors at the 61stAHC worked more with the ARVN. Later, Greg
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Monday, March 03, 2003 at 19:54:32 (MST)

Max,shortly after Mike Walker went down we moved to Lane and started flying for ROK Marines.A group came over from Fort Bragg took our place. We were their when I left forward area in early July to get ready to come home.
J. W. Wilson
USA - Monday, March 03, 2003 at 19:54:19 (MST)

My first duty with the 129th in June of '66 was with the ROK Tiger Division. My bird and one other were assigned to support them out of Phan Rang. Most flying was ash and trash (*LOTS* of cabbage for kim-chee), but we also did all their dust-offs when they were sweeping the valley around their hilltops. My first KIA and WIA were both ROKs. Point of interest: the ROKs had their pay matched by the U.S. while they were in 'Nam, so they were drawing double pay, and happy to get it. I assume from the commo here that after you guys moved to Lane, you primarily supported the ROKs and ARVN, but in '66-'67 we only had two ships assigned to them. I worked with virtually every unit in the 2nd Corp area during my tour, and have to say that the ROKs were the toughest and best fighters I ever worked with, bar none. STORY: we medivaced a young ROK WIA, whose hand was sliced open. He grinned all the way to the hospital. Found out later he was a newbie, who had been allowed to fight a captured VC barehanded, using only karate, after the VC had been given a knife and told that he could go free if he killed the kid before the kid killed him. Obviously, the kid won.
Max Whittington
USA - Monday, March 03, 2003 at 18:14:19 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT..WANT TO SAY HELLO TO ANIMAL. I DONT KNOW YOU BUT I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN ON HOW ROCK ARMY WAS RUTHLESS. I DO WISHED I DIDNTREAD ABOUT HW THEY SHOT THE MAN WHO FELL ASLEEP THAT BOTHEREDME DONT KNOW WHY BUT I GUES HE NEW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE DID.. YOU SEEM TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT OR I JUST DONT KNOW.. LATLY I BEEN SO CONFUSED ABUT EVERYTHING I WOULD HAVE E MAIILED YOU BUT SEEN NO E MAIL ADRESS .. WELL I JUST WANTED TO SAY HELLO .. I WAS IN VIET NAM IN 4-69-4-70 WAS ROBBIES GUNNER FOR A MOST OF THE TIME. ONCE AGAIN I HOPE WORDS CAME OUT RIGHT A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY BE SAFE ALL
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Monday, March 03, 2003 at 16:14:27 (MST)

God I hate getting old. I couldn't find my reading glasses the other night. Without them I'm helpless and couldn't even find out how to make the type larger on my monitor. My former military training helped me solve the dilema however,.......My wife thought I was a little strange standing on the other side of the room looking at the computer screen through binoculars ! Speaking of the ROKS; I for one thought they were pretty good troops compared to the ARVN, but they were definatly bad ass. Once while a Peter Pilot (maybe with Thor) we droped a ROK colnel(sp) off at a fire base and heard a shot after he entered the compound. It turns out he found some guy asleep on guard and executed him on the spot. You can be sure that guy got a salute when he returned! I've seen ARVN on the other hand push wounded out of the way, jump on a helicopter and play possem to get out of a fight. I definatly slept better at night knowing we had Koreans around Lane instead of ARVN. To change the subject; Kim: You asked me awhile back a good question, and I've been giving it serious thought. (How can one support the soldier without supporting the cause) My response would be that I do support the cause, but just feel that there are alternative directions than the one we are now headed . In WW2 Gen. McArthur disagreed with the President on how to conduct the war in the pacific. He felt the US should begin with the retaking of the Philipines, instead of working our way up micronesia. Even though he disagreed with the president, he was never accused of being unpatriotic(a pompous ass maybe, but not unpatriotic.) Being against the coming war doesn't mean a person supports Tyrany or terrorism, just that there may be other ways to crush them. Sorry to get political on you guys, but I had to respond to a very good point that Kim brought up, and I want to assure all of you that I AM a loyal American. One last question to ponder: How can one support freedom of speech without exersizing it? With Respect, Greg
Animal
Puna , HI USA - Monday, March 03, 2003 at 12:58:08 (MST)

Its good to hear from you Joe. Be careful out there.********Kim its great that you got to see 431. The smoke thing I am not sure what a smoke ship is?? We did sniffer missions were we had these sensors that picked up a amoninia scent and I would pop smoke when the dial went crazy and the cobras would come in hot on that area.****Gale check out the vets in your area every state is diffrent from what I have been hearing.***** Mark keep us informed on Dee's condition. How are you doing? Flight be careful out there
Rick England
USA - Monday, March 03, 2003 at 08:56:35 (MST)

THERE WAS AN INTERESTING NEWS REPORT ON THE BBC OVER HERE. IT WAS ABOUT THE R.O.K. TROOPS IN VIETNAM. THER ARE TALKES ABOUT THE ATROCITIES THEY ENGAGED IN DURING THE WAR. AND THER IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THEY WILL PAY SOME KIND OF RETROBUTION TO THE VIETNAM. AN INTERESTING CONCEPT, II CORP'S IS STILL PLEAGED WITH HORRIFIC POVERTY.-----------JOE
JOE JOHNSON <cobra073@yahoo.com>
CHAING MAI, THILAND - Monday, March 03, 2003 at 07:29:03 (MST)

Landed at Travis field in Oakland, got a steak dinner, about two am. Asked if I wanted to take a drop, or go to Ft. Campbell...good by army! It was cold in Oakland, flew across the country in a 747, got so drunk I got carried to my connecting flight in Chicago, Landed in Portland Me, February, walked down the ramp...(before the closed in ramps they have nowadays) had the strongest urge to touch my tongue to the metal railing...it was below zero! Hiked home, and hid for two days before venturing out. First guys I met asked if I was at the party the saturday before....durh!!!!! Went to the VFW with my dad....got treated like shit up there...welcome home!!! I was too young to legally drink outside of the post, and wasn't welcome there, went back home for a week or so, till just about went crazy from sitting around doing nothing..Tried to get a job, no one was hiring, tried going to school...couldn't focus on anything..nothing seemed important....I went back in the army ten months later,,thought I could fit in there...big mistake! By the time I got out the second time, I guess I was pretty well adjusted to the idea that the war was over, and it was time to get on with life...I was lucky enough to end up marrying a lady who was married to a viet vet. she knew how to leave me alone when I needed to hide from the world...stuck by me through some outrageous times...never questions my actions...I'm some lucky there!!!! I guess that's what makes me a cautious hawk....I can't think of the experience as being so much fun that I want to send some other generation out to do it.. all the lies, political bullshit, platitudes.....if it has to be, then do it...but only if it has to be....I make it a point ot salute a GI when I see one..a little thank you for serving, I remember how it felt to feel like a sucker
Kim
USA - Sunday, March 02, 2003 at 19:57:30 (MST)

gotta go for a few days. man this shit gets depressing. does it ever end
alvis
USA - Sunday, March 02, 2003 at 17:13:42 (MST)

i remember flying from columbus georgia to fort lewis wash, for assignment in vietnam.Couple of reserve guys on board, officers if i remember correctly.Felt proud, but kinda naked with just e 3 stripes on, no medals but fire duty and expert badges.Older folks on the palne were nice, younger ones kinda stand offish.These reserve guys started talking to me,found out my "scoop".Those guys were great, bought me drinks, pat on the back, laughs,comradmanship.They made me feel special.Who ever you were, ty. I came home for r and r, as sydney was closed.Folks acted like i had they plague.Same as when i came home after it was over, except i had to go bar hopping to find the "love of my life". Bitch was on a date.When asked y she didnt tell me that things had changed, was stated..shrug, i am patirotic. smile . wish i had brought home the clap.did her once more and never saw again. Mom made a wonderful dinner the next day, all my favorites. mmm was so good, then gotm up and had to go puke, food had to many seasoning, body couldnt take it. Went hitchikeing latter to se some friends. Got beer cans thrown at me by passing moterist and one had a blank gun , leaned out the window and started shooting at me.X wife, picked an arguement with her then hubby, so she could try and do me.when i was married to her i had found a billfold in my backseat,wasnt anyone i knew.Guess my best friend had ther reasons for coming to see me too.anyway, instead of doing wife, i went out with my only brother, big brother.was paraded around like death incarnate. Was ashamed of who i was, where i had been and what i had done. People were afraid of me. couldnt make friends, old friends were strangers. Everyone wanted to know how it felt to kill someone.No one ask of right or wrong, how i felt, how i felt when room mates were kia, or how a idealistic, romantic, young man fared.Was picked uo hitch hiking by a nam grunt vet, marines. ahh, someone i could connect with.made friends, felt comfy. this was 3rd day back.Took me with him, to see friends,was finally comfy.there were into "reds".the kind u break down in a spoon, draw up in a needle, find bliss. blocked out everything, felt good,warm, reds where my friend. No questions, no memorys, just a warm nod.Was sent to ft carson after 30 day leave. Thrust into midst of newbies and ones that hadnt been there. Over streght in avation i was told, welcome to the infrantry. Nam vets seemed to gather together ,as friends.No one else understood.No one else cared. You could still see the fear tho, felt like frankenstien.Nam vets friends there were into speed, the injectable kind.whoo hoo, man that was different. up, happy, damn the torpedoes.G I's stood out like sore thumbs then. every one had long hair, we were something to be made fun of and ridiculed. Didnt fit in outside, didnt fit in inside.didnt fit in with old vets, short hair was a mark of excludment. Goverment says we were faking,and still are, they say. welcome home brothers.
alvis
USA - Sunday, March 02, 2003 at 16:59:57 (MST)

i'm still here,don't post much but read every day. too much anger in postings. i had alot of anger within me years ago,fought with every day until it almost killed me. i can deal with my anger better now than i did in the past. i understand now that i'm not the only person in the world & that the world dose not revole around me.i don't need to open any old wounds so for the time being i'll read what's posted & post once in awhile.its easier to say things over the internet than it is to say to ones face. looking forward to atlanta,see you all their from 010 with love wink 3/69- 10/70
wink <cobra 129th@aol.com>
lakeland, fl USA - Sunday, March 02, 2003 at 12:53:30 (MST)

sorry to steal your thunder Rick...I'm getting to like that HHEEEEEE!! it's been above freezing today....how do you stand all that warm weather???
Kim
USA - Saturday, March 01, 2003 at 16:37:12 (MST)

Gale, thanks for the support...Rick England...I just got back from Bangor Airport..crawled all over 431...HHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE it's in pretty good shape, considering. A few patches in the nose, one in the lower deck, cc side. They have a different tail on it. The pilot seats are armored, no side plates though. Was it a smoke ship at one time???I recall that some were equipped, but never saw it used while I was there. They're the same people who let me play around in their SAR bird a couple years ago. Got invited up to go for a ride when I can. Some of the local Nam vet pilots use their birds to stay current.....Gale, I'd get involved with the VF again, but, it's hard to sit around a bunch of guys who are drinking, when I don't....Somewhere along the way, it's "have a drink! No thanks...oh hell, have one on me...nope, the stuff is stronger than me. OH" silence for a few minutes....they're uncomfortable after that. there are a few of the older vets who do things right. They've read about our little episode, and understand the politics that got us where we were. the History channel does a good job of providing insight to our nation's conflicts. It's interesting...the glory went to the European soldiers, even though they were fighting against the second string. The war America won was the one in the Pacific. About 50 from here fought in Burma...kinda forgotten folks, like us in a lot of ways. they fought longer, endured more hardships, with less, than any other unit in Europe. They figure Uncle Sam sent them to the pacific theater because they're French...afraid they'd defect!!!!!INNAGADDADAVIDA BABY HHHHEEEEEEEE
Kim
USA - Saturday, March 01, 2003 at 16:17:10 (MST)

Dan, good hearing from you too buddy! I hope that you enjoy your canoeing trip. I'm sure you will take a lot of pictures....send a few. At this time I would like to send a "get well" to Dee Jackson who I understand has been under the weather for a while. Hopefully, you will be feeling better and back on your feet again. You are a sweet gal and a true friend.......your hubby is a sweet guy also, but, we won't go there! Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Saturday, March 01, 2003 at 12:12:34 (MST)

Kim, Very good words of wisdom...should give us something to think about. I belong to the VFW and the Legion. I was Vice-commander years ago and the older fellas wouldn't hand over the reigns to us Viet vets, so, I changed posts and am inactive. I tried going to the VFW and it was the same. Now they are dying off or too old to take part,so, it was almost closed down. There's just a few Viet vets keeping it opened. It seems to be the same story most places around the Country. Gus, Darwin, good to hear from you guys......don't leave us!! Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Saturday, March 01, 2003 at 11:59:47 (MST)

Flashing back to Germany, in 74...Watergate hearings were going on.Got into quite a few arguments about whether or not Nixon was lying. A few fistfights too...usually alcohol related.....funny thing, even when it turned out that I was right, ( for once!) no one that I argued with loved me for being right!.....just got done watcing a show on History channel Bill Colby talking about how the cia pacified the villages from 69-72. Claimed, in hearings before congress that they'd killed 20k, captured 20k, cheiu hoi'ed another 17k political operatives for the vc during that time. How many politicians did they have in South Vietnam?????? Fred A....thinking about rage...black, fringed with red....don't care who gets hurt..no one understands...don't give a f---- if they do......just lash out and destroy...strike till there's nothing left....been there, done that..glad it's behind(hopefully) me..........I'm on my second marriage...twenty seven years this time...five kids bye this one, grandkids, more on the way...hardly any one knows I'm a veteran, much fewer know I'm a combat vet. I was Post Commander at the VFW in town for a year...outside of that group, there aren't fifty who know...no...thousand yard stare... nothing in my eyes to give it away. When I first joined the vf..it was kinda like...you guys had your baby war...too bad you weren't good enough to win. The ww2 guys thought they were too good for us...now, they're all dying, and they want us to clean up the mess they made! They spent a lot of years overstating their membership, putting little prizes out for keeping the rosters full, even if no one paid their dues. So many points for running a blood drive, doing a community service project, sending someone to the Vet center on Christmas..do all that and you get to wear a white hat..ALL AMERICAN POST COMMANDER!!!!Napolean said it,I think...give somebody a piece of ribbon, tell them they're special..and they'll march through hell for you!!!! To me.. it means that they feel they have to bribe people to do what's right! To me..peace is where we find it..Buddha found it in a cave.Joan d' Arc found it in a pile of logs........smile...it's the easiest thing we can do to improve our disposition:) :) :)
Kim La Voie
Livermore, Me USA - Saturday, March 01, 2003 at 07:45:28 (MST)